I was not suggesting any liking or approval of America’s abuse of power, it’s just that in the same position, I am not sure that China, Russia, or anyone else would necessarily have been more benign. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely - and that applies to any individual, party or organisation. Your summary of atrocities committed by the USA is really understating g the evils of the empire but others would do much the same or worse.
What sort of evidence would make you happy? China committing genocide on the Uigers, India persecuting all non-Hindus, Israel committing genocide on Palestinians, Japanese WWII attrocities?? Hitler’s Germany???To pretend that any of these countries would be a better hegemon is pure speculation on your part. Sorry to rain on your party.
If you cannot comprehend that the global scale of atrocities committed by the US since 6 August 1945 are many orders of magnitude larger than anything you cite, I’m clearly wasting my time engaging with you.
The fact is, no one knows (with 100% certainty) how things would have turned out if history had been different. BUT, the U.S. (and the British and other Western countries) have had a history of colonialsim, imperialism, and genocidalism that has been unmatched by any other nation.
Hence, the U.S. has developed a certain 'exceptionalism' and culture (over 500+ years) built on Genocide, slavery, exploitation, racism, and more that is unmatched by all other than Britain.
And this has little to do with religion (let alone Christianity).
Hmm. As Empires go I'd say Spain was the worst. Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Turkey and the Dutch weren't very nice. The USA and UK did pretty well, while Denmark might be the best of the lot. Not that I approve....
China has never shown they wouldn’t act morally. The Uyghur thing is a CIA and Israel construct and not a valid argument. To say the lack of religion is causing the fighting is laughable.
Not sure about the Uiger thing being a CIA and Israel thing. China wants nothing to do with Islam as it threatens all political systems - including the Chinese dictatorship.
Yep, no hope…repent and believe trust and obey! It requires faith in a gracious, holy, patient, loving and forgiving God. But He is not going to save everyone. Faith in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus is incomparable and a necessary substitutionary death for my sins and for yours…..what a loving God - offering us forgiveness for all our sins! How can you not want the gift of forgiveness which is on offer!
Which GOD are we talking about here, Glenn? My deity is Nature -- that Complex Adaptive System of Systems-- more well informed and self-regulated than any human system ever created -- or by inference, any deity based on human "image and likeness". We have indeed pretty much abandoned that system as inferior rather than superior to our puny fucking brains and creations. This, in my opinion, is why we are doomed little lumps of detritus -- and fully merit that position both within the Biosphere -- having outlived our evolutionary window -- and within the larger universe.
I have been to Urumqi to see my niece. She speaks fluent Mandarin and Uighur and resided there for five years studying the situation. She and I saw repression. All Uighur renters had to leave Urumqi. There were police everywhere. We heard propaganda. But genocide? Not a trace of that.
China invaded Tibet in 1951 and is still there. They invaded Vietnam in 1979 but failed totally. The western regions of China broke away during World War II and the Communist revolution but were too weak to maintain their independence. China is an empire and has been so for a very long time. Not as aggressive as other empires but an empire nevertheless.
Certainly a nation that occupies other nations in order to exploit them economically. Lately they are able to exploit without actually occupying, by bribing and threatening those in charge.
What you say may be true, but it is not relevant to the situation today. This kind of academic talk distracts from the reality of what the USA is doing and has been doing since its founding. This kind of talk only leads to “if it hadn’t been them it would have been somebody else, nothing we can do, the way of the world, got to get back to enjoying my life”. Not to forget, that if power corrupts, your god appears to have a lot of power, is your next life under him going to be as bad as it is under the power-mongers in this life?
That just is semantics, America is doing this right now and has ever since Biden met Golda Meir, it could have been stopped by the next president but it went on and on, until it boosted Usraelinyo believing it was untouchable, just like the nazis thought.
I have studied a lot about China’s history since 1949. They are indeed a rather benign power - even more so when compared to the US or the traditional European colonial powers. I would infinitely prefer a government following the model of China, one that is more concerned with the well-being of its people than overthrowing far off governments. I infinitely prefer a Govt who believes that if it wants resources from other countries, it should buy them. Not steal them. It does appear you don’t even know the difference between Russian and Chinese politics and history, so best you just refrain from commenting until you do.
Canada hasn't, New Zealand hasn't, Australia hasn't. True they held down the indigenous peoples for decades but are trying, especially progressive governments, to repair that.
If they were aware of Israelis genocidal intentions and still backed them then they deserve as much shit poured on them as Israel though none were so racist that they reduced themselves to such depravity as America with regard to Israel.
Canada has certainly participated in the genocide of Palestinians. My country supplied weapons parts and even after agreeing to stop, sent weapon propellants. I think you give to much credit to our governments’ efforts to reconcile with the indigenous peoples - it’s mostly window-dressing.
I was not suggesting any liking or approval of America’s abuse of power, it’s just that in the same position, I am not sure that China, Russia, or anyone else would necessarily have been more benign. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely - and that applies to any individual, party or organisation. Your summary of atrocities committed by the USA is really understating g the evils of the empire but others would do much the same or worse.
“but others would do much the same or worse”
Evidence-free nonsense.
What sort of evidence would make you happy? China committing genocide on the Uigers, India persecuting all non-Hindus, Israel committing genocide on Palestinians, Japanese WWII attrocities?? Hitler’s Germany???To pretend that any of these countries would be a better hegemon is pure speculation on your part. Sorry to rain on your party.
If you cannot comprehend that the global scale of atrocities committed by the US since 6 August 1945 are many orders of magnitude larger than anything you cite, I’m clearly wasting my time engaging with you.
Stephen
I am confused by your logic.
Are you saying that no country could do worse than the US?
My point is that power corrupts and it could manifest through any country that wielded the power that the US has.
Only very recently has China emerged as a threat to US hegemony.
Would you really think that a state like China would act morally and ethically as the sole global hegemon.
Ditto for Russia should it regain its former status.
I would add that this is a pointless to speculate because we don't know the future.
Evil seems to be on the rise just as Christianity is abandoned.
How ironic that the US is nominally Christian.
Emphasis on nominally!
Abandon God and abandon all hope.
The fact is, no one knows (with 100% certainty) how things would have turned out if history had been different. BUT, the U.S. (and the British and other Western countries) have had a history of colonialsim, imperialism, and genocidalism that has been unmatched by any other nation.
Hence, the U.S. has developed a certain 'exceptionalism' and culture (over 500+ years) built on Genocide, slavery, exploitation, racism, and more that is unmatched by all other than Britain.
And this has little to do with religion (let alone Christianity).
Hmm. As Empires go I'd say Spain was the worst. Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Turkey and the Dutch weren't very nice. The USA and UK did pretty well, while Denmark might be the best of the lot. Not that I approve....
Agreed - no argument from me!
China has never shown they wouldn’t act morally. The Uyghur thing is a CIA and Israel construct and not a valid argument. To say the lack of religion is causing the fighting is laughable.
Not sure about the Uiger thing being a CIA and Israel thing. China wants nothing to do with Islam as it threatens all political systems - including the Chinese dictatorship.
We agree to disagree.
So .. Glenn Crichton those who don't believe in a Christian God or a creator God have no HOPE?
Yep, no hope…repent and believe trust and obey! It requires faith in a gracious, holy, patient, loving and forgiving God. But He is not going to save everyone. Faith in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus is incomparable and a necessary substitutionary death for my sins and for yours…..what a loving God - offering us forgiveness for all our sins! How can you not want the gift of forgiveness which is on offer!
Which GOD are we talking about here, Glenn? My deity is Nature -- that Complex Adaptive System of Systems-- more well informed and self-regulated than any human system ever created -- or by inference, any deity based on human "image and likeness". We have indeed pretty much abandoned that system as inferior rather than superior to our puny fucking brains and creations. This, in my opinion, is why we are doomed little lumps of detritus -- and fully merit that position both within the Biosphere -- having outlived our evolutionary window -- and within the larger universe.
Strange that the Uigurs were in Putin's parade, smiling and singing.
Strange indeed ????
I have been to Urumqi to see my niece. She speaks fluent Mandarin and Uighur and resided there for five years studying the situation. She and I saw repression. All Uighur renters had to leave Urumqi. There were police everywhere. We heard propaganda. But genocide? Not a trace of that.
Tell me: When has China invaded another Country OR Russia.......and please don't tell me that Russia was not provoked!
China invaded Tibet in 1951 and is still there. They invaded Vietnam in 1979 but failed totally. The western regions of China broke away during World War II and the Communist revolution but were too weak to maintain their independence. China is an empire and has been so for a very long time. Not as aggressive as other empires but an empire nevertheless.
Question is what do you call an Empire?
Certainly a nation that occupies other nations in order to exploit them economically. Lately they are able to exploit without actually occupying, by bribing and threatening those in charge.
You miss my point.
These countries have not had the dominant position of the US.
If they did, how on earth could you assume that they would not abuse their hegemonic power.
If the US could not be trusted not to abuse its power, tell me why you think China or Russia would be a better option.
There is no evidence, but the way China, India and Russia are going, we may find out.
A multi-polar world may restore balance and eliminate hegemonic abuse.
Bring it on…..
What you say may be true, but it is not relevant to the situation today. This kind of academic talk distracts from the reality of what the USA is doing and has been doing since its founding. This kind of talk only leads to “if it hadn’t been them it would have been somebody else, nothing we can do, the way of the world, got to get back to enjoying my life”. Not to forget, that if power corrupts, your god appears to have a lot of power, is your next life under him going to be as bad as it is under the power-mongers in this life?
Well said Ron Stockton. U.S. Empire Apologists always come up with 'if not us then someone else, hence why not us' rationalization.
Anything's possible Glenn.
That just is semantics, America is doing this right now and has ever since Biden met Golda Meir, it could have been stopped by the next president but it went on and on, until it boosted Usraelinyo believing it was untouchable, just like the nazis thought.
I have studied a lot about China’s history since 1949. They are indeed a rather benign power - even more so when compared to the US or the traditional European colonial powers. I would infinitely prefer a government following the model of China, one that is more concerned with the well-being of its people than overthrowing far off governments. I infinitely prefer a Govt who believes that if it wants resources from other countries, it should buy them. Not steal them. It does appear you don’t even know the difference between Russian and Chinese politics and history, so best you just refrain from commenting until you do.
They are so much more benign, it’s not a comparison.
Canada hasn't, New Zealand hasn't, Australia hasn't. True they held down the indigenous peoples for decades but are trying, especially progressive governments, to repair that.
If they were aware of Israelis genocidal intentions and still backed them then they deserve as much shit poured on them as Israel though none were so racist that they reduced themselves to such depravity as America with regard to Israel.
Canada has certainly participated in the genocide of Palestinians. My country supplied weapons parts and even after agreeing to stop, sent weapon propellants. I think you give to much credit to our governments’ efforts to reconcile with the indigenous peoples - it’s mostly window-dressing.