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Stephen Walker's avatar

No, not 50 years. A few months shy of 80 years. The US became a rogue state on 6 August 1945, and then progressed exponentially in its depraved project on 9 August 1945, and then through the Korean War, the coup d'état in Iran, Guatemala, Indonesia, Greece and Chile, the Vietnam War, funding and arming countless civil wars in Africa, Latin America and Asia, supporting Iraq in its war against Iran, bombing Yugoslavia, and invading Iraq.

As for “the alternatives [being] arguably worse”—this assertion is evidence-free garbage.

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Silvia's avatar

Let’s not forget the designing, planning, execution, training of Project Condor to eliminate the “subversive groups” in Argentina helping the military regime to commit a genocide in which 30,000 people were tortured, killed, missing, thrown from airplanes in the ocean, appropriated children after mothers gave birth, tortured children who weighed 25kilograms and up because they could stand the tortures. And today it’s intruding and causing many issues like stealing natural resources and pollution the water.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Chile. People were just disappeared!

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Silvia's avatar

Bolivia, Brazil, Uruguay, and Paraguay too.

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CK's avatar

Stephen Walker,

The public schools deliberately do not teach that history. They also gloss over the US genocide and apartheid against the people known as Native Americans.

As for the generally “nice and polite” Canadians, their treatment of the First Nations people has also been appalling.

This is all consistent with the tactics and strategies of the British Empire during the past five centuries, during which the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian and French Empires also perpetrated brutality for economic gains.

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Peter Sawchuk's avatar

Britain, France, Holland, the U.S. and many others who engaged in Imperialism and do to this day are no different now than they have been for centuries. They will not change until they cease to exist. They are all like the scorpion riding on the frog's back. It is their nature because they are scorpions.

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Ron Stockton's avatar

I think the USA became a rogue state on July 4, 1776. It has been imperialist and expansionist since day one.

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Eddie's avatar

It's probably why USA and Israel became immediate BFFs, they both were built on imperialism and suffering of others.

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gypsy33's avatar

Native Americans: fighting terrorism since 1492.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Hell yeah. The only nobility this country has ever really known.

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CrumpledForeskin's avatar

I 100% agree.

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Jim Jackson's avatar

You're not pushing it back far enough. The Mexican War was the beginning of the Imperial USA. Just like now in Gaza, border raids from Mexico were seized upon as an excuse to take Mexican land. Southern politicians were at the forefront of this, waving the bloody shirt and fantasizing about plantations in California. Then, 15 years later the Northern component of Imperial USA bit them on the ass to get the South's tariff payments and natural resources. Wars are always about getting something.

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Eddie's avatar

I wonder if California would have been better off staying as part of Mexico, because being part of the U.S. has done the state and the people who live here absolutely no favors.

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Dorothea Laster's avatar

1619?

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

I was not suggesting any liking or approval of America’s abuse of power, it’s just that in the same position, I am not sure that China, Russia, or anyone else would necessarily have been more benign. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely - and that applies to any individual, party or organisation. Your summary of atrocities committed by the USA is really understating g the evils of the empire but others would do much the same or worse.

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Stephen Walker's avatar

“but others would do much the same or worse”

Evidence-free nonsense.

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

What sort of evidence would make you happy? China committing genocide on the Uigers, India persecuting all non-Hindus, Israel committing genocide on Palestinians, Japanese WWII attrocities?? Hitler’s Germany???To pretend that any of these countries would be a better hegemon is pure speculation on your part. Sorry to rain on your party.

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Stephen Walker's avatar

If you cannot comprehend that the global scale of atrocities committed by the US since 6 August 1945 are many orders of magnitude larger than anything you cite, I’m clearly wasting my time engaging with you.

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

Stephen

I am confused by your logic.

Are you saying that no country could do worse than the US?

My point is that power corrupts and it could manifest through any country that wielded the power that the US has.

Only very recently has China emerged as a threat to US hegemony.

Would you really think that a state like China would act morally and ethically as the sole global hegemon.

Ditto for Russia should it regain its former status.

I would add that this is a pointless to speculate because we don't know the future.

Evil seems to be on the rise just as Christianity is abandoned.

How ironic that the US is nominally Christian.

Emphasis on nominally!

Abandon God and abandon all hope.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

The fact is, no one knows (with 100% certainty) how things would have turned out if history had been different. BUT, the U.S. (and the British and other Western countries) have had a history of colonialsim, imperialism, and genocidalism that has been unmatched by any other nation.

Hence, the U.S. has developed a certain 'exceptionalism' and culture (over 500+ years) built on Genocide, slavery, exploitation, racism, and more that is unmatched by all other than Britain.

And this has little to do with religion (let alone Christianity).

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CrumpledForeskin's avatar

China has never shown they wouldn’t act morally. The Uyghur thing is a CIA and Israel construct and not a valid argument. To say the lack of religion is causing the fighting is laughable.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

So .. Glenn Crichton those who don't believe in a Christian God or a creator God have no HOPE?

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Which GOD are we talking about here, Glenn? My deity is Nature -- that Complex Adaptive System of Systems-- more well informed and self-regulated than any human system ever created -- or by inference, any deity based on human "image and likeness". We have indeed pretty much abandoned that system as inferior rather than superior to our puny fucking brains and creations. This, in my opinion, is why we are doomed little lumps of detritus -- and fully merit that position both within the Biosphere -- having outlived our evolutionary window -- and within the larger universe.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Strange that the Uigurs were in Putin's parade, smiling and singing.

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

Strange indeed ????

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Patrick Powers's avatar

I have been to Urumqi to see my niece. She speaks fluent Mandarin and Uighur and resided there for five years studying the situation. She and I saw repression. All Uighur renters had to leave Urumqi. There were police everywhere. We heard propaganda. But genocide? Not a trace of that.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Tell me: When has China invaded another Country OR Russia.......and please don't tell me that Russia was not provoked!

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Patrick Powers's avatar

China invaded Tibet in 1951 and is still there. They invaded Vietnam in 1979 but failed totally. The western regions of China broke away during World War II and the Communist revolution but were too weak to maintain their independence. China is an empire and has been so for a very long time. Not as aggressive as other empires but an empire nevertheless.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Question is what do you call an Empire?

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Patrick Powers's avatar

Certainly a nation that occupies other nations in order to exploit them economically. Lately they are able to exploit without actually occupying, by bribing and threatening those in charge.

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

You miss my point.

These countries have not had the dominant position of the US.

If they did, how on earth could you assume that they would not abuse their hegemonic power.

If the US could not be trusted not to abuse its power, tell me why you think China or Russia would be a better option.

There is no evidence, but the way China, India and Russia are going, we may find out.

A multi-polar world may restore balance and eliminate hegemonic abuse.

Bring it on…..

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Ron Stockton's avatar

What you say may be true, but it is not relevant to the situation today. This kind of academic talk distracts from the reality of what the USA is doing and has been doing since its founding. This kind of talk only leads to “if it hadn’t been them it would have been somebody else, nothing we can do, the way of the world, got to get back to enjoying my life”. Not to forget, that if power corrupts, your god appears to have a lot of power, is your next life under him going to be as bad as it is under the power-mongers in this life?

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well said Ron Stockton. U.S. Empire Apologists always come up with 'if not us then someone else, hence why not us' rationalization.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Anything's possible Glenn.

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Davina's avatar

That just is semantics, America is doing this right now and has ever since Biden met Golda Meir, it could have been stopped by the next president but it went on and on, until it boosted Usraelinyo believing it was untouchable, just like the nazis thought.

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Karuna's avatar

I have studied a lot about China’s history since 1949. They are indeed a rather benign power - even more so when compared to the US or the traditional European colonial powers. I would infinitely prefer a government following the model of China, one that is more concerned with the well-being of its people than overthrowing far off governments. I infinitely prefer a Govt who believes that if it wants resources from other countries, it should buy them. Not steal them. It does appear you don’t even know the difference between Russian and Chinese politics and history, so best you just refrain from commenting until you do.

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CrumpledForeskin's avatar

They are so much more benign, it’s not a comparison.

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Davina's avatar

Canada hasn't, New Zealand hasn't, Australia hasn't. True they held down the indigenous peoples for decades but are trying, especially progressive governments, to repair that.

If they were aware of Israelis genocidal intentions and still backed them then they deserve as much shit poured on them as Israel though none were so racist that they reduced themselves to such depravity as America with regard to Israel.

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Ron Stockton's avatar

Canada has certainly participated in the genocide of Palestinians. My country supplied weapons parts and even after agreeing to stop, sent weapon propellants. I think you give to much credit to our governments’ efforts to reconcile with the indigenous peoples - it’s mostly window-dressing.

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Glenn Crichton's avatar

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The US has had this power for much of the last century and if the US is not now completely corrupt, I don’t know what it is! Give that power to Russia or China and you’d get the same result because power corrupts. Get off you high horses pretending that other regimes would act differently. That is fantasy!!!

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Patrick Powers's avatar

How is the Korean War an imperial project? It was defense from a truly unprovoked surprise attack by an entity so evil that many North Korean prisoners of war petitioned to remain in the South.

It is true that MacArthur wanted to subjugate China but that didn't happen.

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Stephen Walker's avatar

Fuck off idiot. You don’t have a fucking clue.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

Hope dare I hope to ascend to such an erudite and refined level of debate? To alleviate my shame at being so bested I feel I have no alternative other than to block you.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

How dare hope to ever ascend to such an erudite and refined level of debate? To limit my shame at being so sorely bested I have no alternative other than to block you.

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John Mann's avatar

Or perhaps being rogue goes with being a state, so that it is actually 249 years . . .

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