"...The Hamas attacks on October 7, 2023, were mass atrocities that must be condemned outright. ..."
No- actually that's not clear, as the only mass atrocities that have been definitiely identified on that day are of Israel shelling its own people to death, on purpose.
The Palestinian people, as a people subjected by the Israelis to what the UN has long identitfied in international law as illegal occupation and apartheid, have under those laws a right to resistance. And Israel as a nation is one in which virtually all adults over age 18 are armed and actively serve in the military and miltary reserves.
So if the Palestinian people have a right to resistance, and they do, then in doing so they would have encountered armed Israeli's that they would have to assume are Israeli armed forces and disam them. Which is what the reports of that day seem to indicate: they sought to disam people they encountered and take them as prisoners of war.
There is no valid report of this event that suggests the Palestinians on that day went on an aimless wanton killing spree. They appear to have been organized forces taking targeted and measured action - not "mass atrocities".
So when you write what you write there, really you are repeating Israeli disinformation, which has no relationship to what, in August 2025, we have gathered so far as the facts of what occured on October 7th 2023.
All these cars were not incinerated by the guns which Hamas used but by Hellfire missiles which Israel used as they implemented the "Hannibal directive"
This to me was very damning evidence of tanks and helicopters unleashing hellfire on everything that moved. We know the Palestinians didn’t have any tanks or helicopters. The Israelis are shitty liars. They were used to the west just taking their word for it. That no longer exists.
Yes and no. Most of the rumored extreme atrocities appear to have never happened. (I won't even enumerate them here.) And the planned raid by Hamas forces seems to have been limited to the military base. But it does appear that the motley group of militants who arrived spontaneously did shoot a large number of unarmed civlians in their homes. Which I consider a mass atrocity, though at a much lower level than the rumors or than Israeli atrocities.
This doesn’t add up with the Israeli woman who said tanks opened fire on the Israeli homes, killing the Palestinians and Jews alike. She was one of the eye witness survivors. The Jews weren’t happy about her surviving to tell the story.
I think they're 100% compatible. It was a long day and over a thousand people were killed. It's not hard to imagine that there were killers of more than one nationality.
For sure. I’ve heard that Hamas didn’t know some of the people that joined on Oct 7th and there is rumor they may have been Mossad operatives. You never know. I do know that Hamas was not there to murder, but to kidnap, so they could trade for the 10,000 Palestinian prisoners that are tortured in the Israeli Gulags, at all times. Hamas knew that they didn’t stand to benefit from a wild killing spree. We know that Israel knew it was coming, so with that knowledge, they moved the rave smack dab where the incursion was planned. The truth about that day will be revealed at some point.
I have wondered if some of the rogue Palestinians might have been paid by Israel. I don't know if extending the rave was planned centrally, but it certainly wasn't anything Hamas could have known about. It's pretty obvious that moving soldiers *away* from Gaza right before a known planned attack was a deliberate move by Israeli planners to make the attack much bigger and longer than it would have been.
They moved the rave location a day or two before it happened. We can all agree that Israel knew exactly what was going to happen.
They freaking had explosive walkie talkies and have more spies per square mile than any country on earth. Not to mention this is the most heavily guarded border on earth. If so much as a rat gets too close to the wall on the Palestinian side, it would be vaporized in seconds.
"...The Hamas attacks on October 7, 2023, were mass atrocities that must be condemned outright. ..."
No- actually that's not clear, as the only mass atrocities that have been definitiely identified on that day are of Israel shelling its own people to death, on purpose.
The Palestinian people, as a people subjected by the Israelis to what the UN has long identitfied in international law as illegal occupation and apartheid, have under those laws a right to resistance. And Israel as a nation is one in which virtually all adults over age 18 are armed and actively serve in the military and miltary reserves.
So if the Palestinian people have a right to resistance, and they do, then in doing so they would have encountered armed Israeli's that they would have to assume are Israeli armed forces and disam them. Which is what the reports of that day seem to indicate: they sought to disam people they encountered and take them as prisoners of war.
There is no valid report of this event that suggests the Palestinians on that day went on an aimless wanton killing spree. They appear to have been organized forces taking targeted and measured action - not "mass atrocities".
So when you write what you write there, really you are repeating Israeli disinformation, which has no relationship to what, in August 2025, we have gathered so far as the facts of what occured on October 7th 2023.
All these cars were not incinerated by the guns which Hamas used but by Hellfire missiles which Israel used as they implemented the "Hannibal directive"
https://thegrayzone.com/2024/06/21/israeli-army-friendly-fire-october-7/
This to me was very damning evidence of tanks and helicopters unleashing hellfire on everything that moved. We know the Palestinians didn’t have any tanks or helicopters. The Israelis are shitty liars. They were used to the west just taking their word for it. That no longer exists.
Yes and no. Most of the rumored extreme atrocities appear to have never happened. (I won't even enumerate them here.) And the planned raid by Hamas forces seems to have been limited to the military base. But it does appear that the motley group of militants who arrived spontaneously did shoot a large number of unarmed civlians in their homes. Which I consider a mass atrocity, though at a much lower level than the rumors or than Israeli atrocities.
This doesn’t add up with the Israeli woman who said tanks opened fire on the Israeli homes, killing the Palestinians and Jews alike. She was one of the eye witness survivors. The Jews weren’t happy about her surviving to tell the story.
I think they're 100% compatible. It was a long day and over a thousand people were killed. It's not hard to imagine that there were killers of more than one nationality.
For sure. I’ve heard that Hamas didn’t know some of the people that joined on Oct 7th and there is rumor they may have been Mossad operatives. You never know. I do know that Hamas was not there to murder, but to kidnap, so they could trade for the 10,000 Palestinian prisoners that are tortured in the Israeli Gulags, at all times. Hamas knew that they didn’t stand to benefit from a wild killing spree. We know that Israel knew it was coming, so with that knowledge, they moved the rave smack dab where the incursion was planned. The truth about that day will be revealed at some point.
I have wondered if some of the rogue Palestinians might have been paid by Israel. I don't know if extending the rave was planned centrally, but it certainly wasn't anything Hamas could have known about. It's pretty obvious that moving soldiers *away* from Gaza right before a known planned attack was a deliberate move by Israeli planners to make the attack much bigger and longer than it would have been.
They moved the rave location a day or two before it happened. We can all agree that Israel knew exactly what was going to happen.
They freaking had explosive walkie talkies and have more spies per square mile than any country on earth. Not to mention this is the most heavily guarded border on earth. If so much as a rat gets too close to the wall on the Palestinian side, it would be vaporized in seconds.