Humans have been using and abusing this planet since Europeans wiped out the indigenous people who lived in harmony with the earth. We do nothing but take from this beautiful planet we’ve been given to live on, never giving one goddamn thing back, becoming ever more murderous in pursuit of profits, profits, profits. The current genocide is the most prominent example yet.
Tigers don’t kill other species because they think they were “promised” a piece of real estate. Polar bears don’t support the wars because it’s “good for the economy”.
And opossums don’t create poisonous emissions that are turning swaths of the earth into deserts via climate change. The Earth can ONLY recover when humanity is gone like a freight train, and that means ME, and it means YOU.
I think it is important to hate the actions of some humans, but equally important not to hate all humans. This is happening because some humans think they are entitled to hate other humans. They are not.
Not me. I have fought against the behaviour that has caused the earth to be in such a mess for a big part of my life. The worst people I actually have spent any time with are those who actually believe that people like those who run Starbucks are successful because they have money. The earth is so fucked because a few people put money before everything and propagandize others into drinking the koolaid. If we really want to change things we have to oppose those who destroy and work on accepting those who may be imperfect, but who do not destroy. Some people just cannot accept what the powerful are doing to the earth and to regular, non rich, non powerful people. I don't think they deserve to be hated for being naive. If we have any hope of the world being a better place we need to struggle not to hate, but to oppose loud and clear when we see vile, destructive behaviour.
Maybe many people put money first. Maybe most. But I don't think the way to change for the better is to hate people. Or even place all the blame on regular people. And, in fact I know many people who bike, don't fly, use as little plastic as possible, eat healthy food, don't litter. It isn't enough to change the climate catastrophe, but it is what some people can do. I think our world is in great danger of disappearing. I don't want to go hating everyone around me. It is already a struggle accepting what I don't like. I just do not want to hate. That is my choice.
I am not sure WHAT luxurious lifestyle you are talking about. I am not in the same kind of situation as people in Gaza or even as people in this city where I live who are homeless. My hope is that people will at least be able to have a roof over their head and enough food so that they don't go hungry. My biggest luxury is this stupid computer. If I didn't have it in my house, I would probably spend more time at the library. I don't have a car, I don't eat in restaurants, I don't fly. Still, I do realize that my life is easier that that of others on this degraded planet.
Energy is infinite, in the past it was harnessed from the ether. In fact all our resources are infinite, Earth gives us all we need . Unfortunately a few humans have chosen to control these resources and we have been brainwashed into scarcity and lack rather than abundance. This creates the society of greed we are currently living in. If we only take what we need there would be plenty for all.
It's not a question of hating all humans, but rather ALL the corporate capitalist human societies whose parameters almost every human on this planet lives within. When I was a kid, one could say about some small business, "customer comes first" -- and mean it; it had at least a smidgen of validity. Not any more. Customer satisfaction is not only dead, it's a smoke screen utilized to pursue the cut-cost, bottom-line-predominant model which destroys the biosphere. As such, every human society operating under those pretexts deserves condemnation -- and for me as a biologist and Deist, vitriolic hatred for besmirching something I consider SACRED, HOLY., So FUCK any extant human society currently on this planet, except for aboriginals in places like the Amazon, and the few societies like Amish and some regenerative agriculture projects (as described by Michael Pollan in "The Omnivore's Dilemma"). Other than those outliers, I have every right to HATE them as much as a compassionate person hates a fucking Zionist.
I agree that Europeans would have done a lot better and our world would be in better shape if we had listened to indigenous ideas about nature and how it should be treated. I would think through the idea that Amish or Mennonites are more humane on all levels. I do like their idea of non consumption and avoiding modernization. But I have lived in a Mennonite community and in that community was a very high rate of sexual abuse of children. I am also not impressed with how women are treated in those societies. People are people. We are all fallible. We are all stuck in this world, paying exorbitant prices for everything, watching our health care system collapse, watching immigrants being mistreated and we can only write letters, go to protests, talk to other people about how we see the situation. The misery is caused by the pursuit of money and the false idea that money will bring happiness. Corporations would not even exist, if I were making the rules. There would be a limit to the amount of money any one person was allowed to have if I could control things. Any extra money would go to supporting people less able to look after themselves. I think that capitalism is THE problem. Without it, there would not be the push for fossil fuels that are destroying our planet. Or the push for minerals such as cobalt and lithium for batteries, etc., where people mining those things die. Sometimes children. Still, I maintain that hating each other will only make things worse. Hating ideologies such as Zionism, Capitalism, probably religions etc is one thing. But hating people just makes our world an even worse place. I admit that I have a lot of difficulty not feeling hatred toward people like Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates or Elon Musk or any other multi billionaire trying to take control. If I met them in person I hope I could find something to like about them. But it would not be their insatiable need for money.
Don't disagree with anything you say about Capitalism and the frantic pursuit of $$ as essentially overshadowing all other considerations. Re: the strength and intensity of emotions toward the Big Capitalist destroyers, that's a personal matter. I believe I've already expressed that my Deity, the Biosphere, is being attacked, with murderous intent by these monsters (they're aware of their impact). I feel the emotional intensity of my reactions to be appropriate, as compared, let's say, to some jerk at my insurance company who's charging me a higher copay for service, a person whom I dislike intensely as a drone of the system, but for whom that malaise is on a completely different level than the big corporate Capitalist Billionaire destroyers like Bezos, Musk, Gates, Karp, et al. Again, this is a very personal matter; let's not try to globalize anything: it'd never work.
Dear Gyp, Any sane bio-physical analysis, unbiased toward humans (difficult, of course, given that we're such bloody narcissists) and based upon the following standard -- "concordance with or violation of fundamental principles in the operation of complex system dynamics" -- would undoubtedly pinpoint humans as the SOLE BIOCIDAL VIOLATORS of those principles on this planet, and therefore, as the murderous species whose disappearance would be most beneficial to the remainder of the biosphere. Anyone like to challenge that assessment, go right ahead. But you'd better come prepared with some complex system examples that disprove my assertion.
I wouldn’t have such a problem with humans if we all lived like the Amish (sans religion and dress codes of course.)
Raising their own food. The incredible sense of community they have. Their work ethics. Multigenerational households. And I could definitely get behind horses for transportation!
Indeed, Gyp, the Amish are a fine example of non-indigenous people who mimic the ways of the indigenous in living harmoniously with the biosphere. And we note how they are often mocked by their non-Amish "neighbors" for not conforming to the wasteful non-regenerative lifestyle of the more standard consume-and-discard culture.
I'd make the exception of the increasingly rare indigenous peoples, a bitter few still uncontacted (the rest wiped out or tamed) who manage to live sustainably within their environments. It can't be an inherent human trait. Although it must be a dormant tendency, and boy how it's spun out of all control.
Speak for yourself.
I’m speaking for YOU AS WELL, Ms. Carolyn.
Humans have been using and abusing this planet since Europeans wiped out the indigenous people who lived in harmony with the earth. We do nothing but take from this beautiful planet we’ve been given to live on, never giving one goddamn thing back, becoming ever more murderous in pursuit of profits, profits, profits. The current genocide is the most prominent example yet.
Tigers don’t kill other species because they think they were “promised” a piece of real estate. Polar bears don’t support the wars because it’s “good for the economy”.
And opossums don’t create poisonous emissions that are turning swaths of the earth into deserts via climate change. The Earth can ONLY recover when humanity is gone like a freight train, and that means ME, and it means YOU.
I think it is important to hate the actions of some humans, but equally important not to hate all humans. This is happening because some humans think they are entitled to hate other humans. They are not.
Okay, Ms. Susan, that’s a given.
Then explain to me why the EARTH ITSELF is fucked.
It’s because of US.
Not me. I have fought against the behaviour that has caused the earth to be in such a mess for a big part of my life. The worst people I actually have spent any time with are those who actually believe that people like those who run Starbucks are successful because they have money. The earth is so fucked because a few people put money before everything and propagandize others into drinking the koolaid. If we really want to change things we have to oppose those who destroy and work on accepting those who may be imperfect, but who do not destroy. Some people just cannot accept what the powerful are doing to the earth and to regular, non rich, non powerful people. I don't think they deserve to be hated for being naive. If we have any hope of the world being a better place we need to struggle not to hate, but to oppose loud and clear when we see vile, destructive behaviour.
Methinks the problem is closer to what Gypsy33 described.
Most of us are NOT willing to change our Luxurious Lifestyle :
- install RenewableEnergy
- use fans to bring in cold night air, then close doors & windows daytime = little air conditioning
- stop flying = Zoom & FaceTime
- stop driving = walk & bike
- stop using Plastic = 😱😵💫🤪🤣
Everyone puts money before good stewardship.
Maybe many people put money first. Maybe most. But I don't think the way to change for the better is to hate people. Or even place all the blame on regular people. And, in fact I know many people who bike, don't fly, use as little plastic as possible, eat healthy food, don't litter. It isn't enough to change the climate catastrophe, but it is what some people can do. I think our world is in great danger of disappearing. I don't want to go hating everyone around me. It is already a struggle accepting what I don't like. I just do not want to hate. That is my choice.
I am not sure WHAT luxurious lifestyle you are talking about. I am not in the same kind of situation as people in Gaza or even as people in this city where I live who are homeless. My hope is that people will at least be able to have a roof over their head and enough food so that they don't go hungry. My biggest luxury is this stupid computer. If I didn't have it in my house, I would probably spend more time at the library. I don't have a car, I don't eat in restaurants, I don't fly. Still, I do realize that my life is easier that that of others on this degraded planet.
Energy is infinite, in the past it was harnessed from the ether. In fact all our resources are infinite, Earth gives us all we need . Unfortunately a few humans have chosen to control these resources and we have been brainwashed into scarcity and lack rather than abundance. This creates the society of greed we are currently living in. If we only take what we need there would be plenty for all.
No, of COURSE NOT, Susan, you’re certainly above all that 🙄
The earth is not fucked because of me personally. I do not consider myself to be above anything or anyone. Sometimes your vitriol is a little wearing.
It's not a question of hating all humans, but rather ALL the corporate capitalist human societies whose parameters almost every human on this planet lives within. When I was a kid, one could say about some small business, "customer comes first" -- and mean it; it had at least a smidgen of validity. Not any more. Customer satisfaction is not only dead, it's a smoke screen utilized to pursue the cut-cost, bottom-line-predominant model which destroys the biosphere. As such, every human society operating under those pretexts deserves condemnation -- and for me as a biologist and Deist, vitriolic hatred for besmirching something I consider SACRED, HOLY., So FUCK any extant human society currently on this planet, except for aboriginals in places like the Amazon, and the few societies like Amish and some regenerative agriculture projects (as described by Michael Pollan in "The Omnivore's Dilemma"). Other than those outliers, I have every right to HATE them as much as a compassionate person hates a fucking Zionist.
I agree that Europeans would have done a lot better and our world would be in better shape if we had listened to indigenous ideas about nature and how it should be treated. I would think through the idea that Amish or Mennonites are more humane on all levels. I do like their idea of non consumption and avoiding modernization. But I have lived in a Mennonite community and in that community was a very high rate of sexual abuse of children. I am also not impressed with how women are treated in those societies. People are people. We are all fallible. We are all stuck in this world, paying exorbitant prices for everything, watching our health care system collapse, watching immigrants being mistreated and we can only write letters, go to protests, talk to other people about how we see the situation. The misery is caused by the pursuit of money and the false idea that money will bring happiness. Corporations would not even exist, if I were making the rules. There would be a limit to the amount of money any one person was allowed to have if I could control things. Any extra money would go to supporting people less able to look after themselves. I think that capitalism is THE problem. Without it, there would not be the push for fossil fuels that are destroying our planet. Or the push for minerals such as cobalt and lithium for batteries, etc., where people mining those things die. Sometimes children. Still, I maintain that hating each other will only make things worse. Hating ideologies such as Zionism, Capitalism, probably religions etc is one thing. But hating people just makes our world an even worse place. I admit that I have a lot of difficulty not feeling hatred toward people like Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates or Elon Musk or any other multi billionaire trying to take control. If I met them in person I hope I could find something to like about them. But it would not be their insatiable need for money.
Don't disagree with anything you say about Capitalism and the frantic pursuit of $$ as essentially overshadowing all other considerations. Re: the strength and intensity of emotions toward the Big Capitalist destroyers, that's a personal matter. I believe I've already expressed that my Deity, the Biosphere, is being attacked, with murderous intent by these monsters (they're aware of their impact). I feel the emotional intensity of my reactions to be appropriate, as compared, let's say, to some jerk at my insurance company who's charging me a higher copay for service, a person whom I dislike intensely as a drone of the system, but for whom that malaise is on a completely different level than the big corporate Capitalist Billionaire destroyers like Bezos, Musk, Gates, Karp, et al. Again, this is a very personal matter; let's not try to globalize anything: it'd never work.
Dear Gyp, Any sane bio-physical analysis, unbiased toward humans (difficult, of course, given that we're such bloody narcissists) and based upon the following standard -- "concordance with or violation of fundamental principles in the operation of complex system dynamics" -- would undoubtedly pinpoint humans as the SOLE BIOCIDAL VIOLATORS of those principles on this planet, and therefore, as the murderous species whose disappearance would be most beneficial to the remainder of the biosphere. Anyone like to challenge that assessment, go right ahead. But you'd better come prepared with some complex system examples that disprove my assertion.
Hi Vin
I wouldn’t have such a problem with humans if we all lived like the Amish (sans religion and dress codes of course.)
Raising their own food. The incredible sense of community they have. Their work ethics. Multigenerational households. And I could definitely get behind horses for transportation!
Indeed, Gyp, the Amish are a fine example of non-indigenous people who mimic the ways of the indigenous in living harmoniously with the biosphere. And we note how they are often mocked by their non-Amish "neighbors" for not conforming to the wasteful non-regenerative lifestyle of the more standard consume-and-discard culture.
I'd make the exception of the increasingly rare indigenous peoples, a bitter few still uncontacted (the rest wiped out or tamed) who manage to live sustainably within their environments. It can't be an inherent human trait. Although it must be a dormant tendency, and boy how it's spun out of all control.