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Karl Brainard's avatar

Before I could finish reading the first few books of the Old Testament, I was convinced to drop religion. The Gita wasn't any better. Religion is a human creation - thus the fallibility of it.

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Peter Sawchuk's avatar

The philosophy of Christianity is beautiful. Too bad none of us follow or for that matter try to follow the life and love philosophy. If you had read the rest of the bible you would have seen the manipulation perpetrated by the writers to enforce their rule over humanity. While many tout freedom of religion there is no freedom in religion. It is all about subservience. and murder.

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Duane McPherson's avatar

I agree very much. The teachings of Christ are beautiful; the later interpretations of those teachings are where the problems of Christianity arise. Surely Christ had no intention of founding a religion; I think he was more intent on reforming Judaism.

G.K. Chesterton had some acute observations on Christian philosophy:

"Jesus promised his disciples three things—that they would be completely fearless, absurdly happy, and in constant trouble."

"To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless."

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."

~ Gilbert K. Chesterton

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martin's avatar

last quote seems pretty much what some libertarians say about 'real capitalism'.

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Karl Brainard's avatar

I did read the rest of it. Beautiful? Some parts (the Red Letter version is especially so). Did that undo the horrible parts. No.

If we ignore the wrong things written there just to say "It is good", then we have thrown objectivity out the window.

The same for the rest of the religious books. If at some point it calls for or justifies killing others, then that is just wrong.

You don't give serial killers kudos just because they also give to charity.

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Peter Sawchuk's avatar

I agree with you entirely. It isn't hard to pick out the parts that manipulate people into subservience. This is the part of "Faith" that requires you to forget about logic and critical thing and go forward blindly on "Faith" and unfortunately it appears many do.

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Duane McPherson's avatar

Of course religion is a human creation. What else could it be?

The Old Testament is deeply tied to the attitudes of the Bronze Age (ca. 3000 BC - 1200 BC) and reflect the social attitudes of that time. The Bhagavad Gita is an excerpt from a larger work, the Mahabarata and best read in that context. However, the Mahabarata is huge. As an alternative, try reading some of the Upanishads, which are more concise. They are, as Eknath Easwaran, put it, Postcards from the Beyond. They are very rich! The translations by Easwaran are very good.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

I think I would like the opportunity to read the Upanishads (as I've heard about it from several sources).

Do you know of any resources that make it EASIER to understand for ordinary & non-religious folk like me? (and in English too?) Are the Easwaran translations relatively accurate and self-understandable?

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Duane McPherson's avatar

The translations by Easwaran are in English and also are accurate, as he was an Indian and also was fluent in Sanskrit. There is a helpful Introduction by Easwaran. The individual Upanishads are accompanied by commentary by another author, but personally I think the Upanishads speak better for themselves. The Easwaran edition is not expensive and includes the most central Upanishads. After that you can dig into the others as translated by other authors.

I taught a course that used the Easwaran translation of the Gita and that is how I became aquainted with his work. I think his work is a good place to start. You can look up used copies on Addall.com which is where I find a lot of books. Addall is a compiler of book sources, not a direct vendor.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Thank you Duane!

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Basil Rathbone's avatar

You might look into Krishnamurti, who's teaching was often compared favorably to the Upanishads. I spent many years reading and trying to understand what he was "really" saying. Before he died in 1986 he had many discussions with the physicist David Bohm, who in many ways further illuminated what K was teaching from his background in physics. I attended some of K's teachings the year before he died. He was an extremely rare soul.

Most of these discussions can be found online, in videos and audios, plus there are many books on K and Bohm, with several others who took a keen interest in K's teachings. The Upanishads are so ancient (c. 800-300 BCE) and authorless (nobody knows who originally wrote them), that it can be helpful if the language is modernized, which K and Bohm provide, along with the others who participated in many discussions.

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