gazans (nor hamas) were stupid. they expected that israel would negotiate. they expected that the western world, espousing high moral values, would intervene. the belligerent 'i'm a 1000 pound grizzly or a live electric socket' argument is a dead end, lest one wants to be banned from the simian flock.
Arguments are a dead end, yes. Anti-Zionists have a phrase for when they can't maintain the illusion that an argument or "international law" or a moral opinion has anything to do with real consequences: facts on the ground.
Facts on the ground that Israel CAN unilaterally impose, like mass starvation or zero reconstruction are the cost of the lies of the anti-Zionists.
Basically the West can impose some pain on Israel (because sanctions evasions is trivial post-globalization and sanctions don't apply to intellectual property) but Israel can impose biologically incompatible conditions on their enemy.
When the world gets around to realizing that one side has won and negotiates things on Israel's terms, then we will be able to move forwards. Until then there will just be more crying about the facts on the ground.
i'm a bit confused by the use of 'anti-zionists' in the first two sentences. israel can indeed impose mass starvation (it does) or zero reconstruction (like russia could have nuked ukraine).
i somewhat disagree with sanction evasion being trivial in all circumstances (russia vs north korea, cuba, venezuela, apartheid south africa, ...).
despite the general narrative control, i estimate that people still can understand the difference between one set of 'facts on the ground' and another. i don't think the world 'realizes' who has 'won', but kinda decides.
Out of all of your sanctions examples, only one case has actually changed a major matter of sovereignty: south africa. I'm sure you think that sanctions were the "silver bullet" there, but this was a major point of discussion I had in college history. What are the historical precedents for sovereign collapse. Economics, internal or external are actually minor factors, because sovereign nations have significant elasticity in tolerating changing economic conditions.
There were two factors that South Africa had to deal with that had nothing to do with sanctions that pushed them over the edge: reliance on the people they were fighting and a sovereign shock with the loss of south west africa. The ending of the cold war was resolved without their major input and they lost a large piece of territory that was structurally part of their sovereignty and the loss of this had very large ripple effects.
Gaza is actually facing collapse over these conditions rather than Israel: reliance upon Israel for biological survival when that support has now been withdrawn and the shock of losing ~50% of the territory held before the war.
It won't be any surprise when the remaining governing structures in Gaza unravel. There are many parallels of this in history.
As far as Israel goes and sanctions... they were sanctioned (actually embargoed) by a major trade partner (Turkey) and it had minor if any impact. Even if Europe did sanction, then globalization means outputs and inputs can be switched in a matter of days rather than months as it was during the fall of the NNP.
sanctions evasion is not trivial in all circumstances. gazan governing structures can easily be rebuild (unlike israeli). the reliance upon israel was not a matter of choice and losing 50% of the territory of an open air prison might not be as big as a shock as was namibia for the south africans. gazans kinda live on the old adage 'freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose'. israel and the west have no freedom. globalization and sanctions still can work both ways.
>sanctions evasion is not trivial in all circumstances.
Unsubstantiated statement which is contradicted by numerous countries getting on with things regardless of sanctions.
>gazan governing structures can easily be rebuild (unlike israeli).
LOL. You think that Israel is just going to give the border back and allow aid in unfettered.
NO border access.
NO reconstruction.
NO hope for Gazans.
Just drone strike the construction vehicles, and make them live on a sandy swamp so tunneling is problematic.
This is literally as good as things are ever going to get for Gazans right now.
It's only getting worse from here. They will be fighting with each other like rats soon enough. They are headed for holodomor if they think they have nothing left to lose. LOL.
gazans (nor hamas) were stupid. they expected that israel would negotiate. they expected that the western world, espousing high moral values, would intervene. the belligerent 'i'm a 1000 pound grizzly or a live electric socket' argument is a dead end, lest one wants to be banned from the simian flock.
Arguments are a dead end, yes. Anti-Zionists have a phrase for when they can't maintain the illusion that an argument or "international law" or a moral opinion has anything to do with real consequences: facts on the ground.
Facts on the ground that Israel CAN unilaterally impose, like mass starvation or zero reconstruction are the cost of the lies of the anti-Zionists.
Basically the West can impose some pain on Israel (because sanctions evasions is trivial post-globalization and sanctions don't apply to intellectual property) but Israel can impose biologically incompatible conditions on their enemy.
When the world gets around to realizing that one side has won and negotiates things on Israel's terms, then we will be able to move forwards. Until then there will just be more crying about the facts on the ground.
i'm a bit confused by the use of 'anti-zionists' in the first two sentences. israel can indeed impose mass starvation (it does) or zero reconstruction (like russia could have nuked ukraine).
i somewhat disagree with sanction evasion being trivial in all circumstances (russia vs north korea, cuba, venezuela, apartheid south africa, ...).
despite the general narrative control, i estimate that people still can understand the difference between one set of 'facts on the ground' and another. i don't think the world 'realizes' who has 'won', but kinda decides.
Out of all of your sanctions examples, only one case has actually changed a major matter of sovereignty: south africa. I'm sure you think that sanctions were the "silver bullet" there, but this was a major point of discussion I had in college history. What are the historical precedents for sovereign collapse. Economics, internal or external are actually minor factors, because sovereign nations have significant elasticity in tolerating changing economic conditions.
There were two factors that South Africa had to deal with that had nothing to do with sanctions that pushed them over the edge: reliance on the people they were fighting and a sovereign shock with the loss of south west africa. The ending of the cold war was resolved without their major input and they lost a large piece of territory that was structurally part of their sovereignty and the loss of this had very large ripple effects.
Gaza is actually facing collapse over these conditions rather than Israel: reliance upon Israel for biological survival when that support has now been withdrawn and the shock of losing ~50% of the territory held before the war.
It won't be any surprise when the remaining governing structures in Gaza unravel. There are many parallels of this in history.
As far as Israel goes and sanctions... they were sanctioned (actually embargoed) by a major trade partner (Turkey) and it had minor if any impact. Even if Europe did sanction, then globalization means outputs and inputs can be switched in a matter of days rather than months as it was during the fall of the NNP.
sanctions evasion is not trivial in all circumstances. gazan governing structures can easily be rebuild (unlike israeli). the reliance upon israel was not a matter of choice and losing 50% of the territory of an open air prison might not be as big as a shock as was namibia for the south africans. gazans kinda live on the old adage 'freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose'. israel and the west have no freedom. globalization and sanctions still can work both ways.
>sanctions evasion is not trivial in all circumstances.
Unsubstantiated statement which is contradicted by numerous countries getting on with things regardless of sanctions.
>gazan governing structures can easily be rebuild (unlike israeli).
LOL. You think that Israel is just going to give the border back and allow aid in unfettered.
NO border access.
NO reconstruction.
NO hope for Gazans.
Just drone strike the construction vehicles, and make them live on a sandy swamp so tunneling is problematic.
This is literally as good as things are ever going to get for Gazans right now.
It's only getting worse from here. They will be fighting with each other like rats soon enough. They are headed for holodomor if they think they have nothing left to lose. LOL.
so, why do you chose to side with the bad guys?