I absolutely agree. However, all of them that I know personally ended their support when it became obvious that he is an incompetent with no concern for what they value, that he incessantly lied often with no reason to, his refusal to take responsible action in our interest, and his alignment with GOP policies that they never supported.
To clarify, I'm referring to those that now support him. They are a big problem in this country and pose an existential threat to our democracy and to the very concept of equal opportunity that we had and to every functional ecosystem that we have left.
In attempting to weigh calamities, I would call the current liberal embrace of institutions like the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA, combined with their calls for social media monopolies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google to further censor and monitor their users' content, along with the MSM silence regarding the false imprisoning of Julian Assange, their weaponization of identity politics, and their assimilation of Bush-era war criminals into their fold, to give anything Trump supporters have cooked up a real run for their money when it comes to engendering an "existential threat to our democracy."
Why would I reconsider my statement? This isn't about labels, such as your use of "liberal" that implies that I am somehow accusing "conservatives" of being Trump supporters and therefore calling "conservatives" stupid. Far from it as a lot of Trump supporters are far more liberal than I am as they are libertarian, just to the right of the most extreme liberals, anarchists.
Trump promised to drain the swamp and made it worse. His supporters ignore that and lie about it. He did nothing to reverse Bush's and Obama's policies with regards to those agencies and their anti-democratic behavior. His problem with them was that he made himself a target with his lies about his Russian contacts, his attempts at Russian deals, his desire to get Russian help with his campaign and his obstruction into the investigation that those actions brought on.
Trump and his supporters, including elected GOP officials, participated in lying and providing misleading information that resulted in this mess. While calls for censoring such statements is understandable as a democracy requires an informed electorate, I don't know who would be the fair gatekeeper. The stupid among us have shown zero interest in determining the objective reality as they have proven themselves immune from facts.
I'm not trying to imply anything, and I used the term liberal as that is the label commonly used to describe them, however far their politics have strayed from classic liberal values. Political labels are quite meaningless these days but come in handy for posts such as these. I thought my context was clear enough. I agree that this isn't about labels, and I don't buy into the democratic/republican spats that only benefit those in maintaining our rotten status quo: Bush got us Obama who got us Trump who got us Biden. The mess is uninterrupted. They're all rotten as far as I'm concerned, because the system by which they are elevated is itself corrupted.
To the point: Your post identified die-hard Trump supporters as those who pose an existential threat to our democracy (kind of an overused and misused phrase at this point; like we've got this pristine thing in danger of being ruined by this or that faction); I believe those on the democratic side along with establishment republicans who oppose Trump pose at least as big of a threat as Trump's dead-enders. It was this idea I was asking you to consider. Perhaps you already account for this, but your post didn't make that case.
Trump pulled shady deals with the Ukraine and his sycophants don't seem to care that he lies and those who opposed him spread CIA BS about him being Putin's puppet and pee tapes and don't seem to care about those lies either. I find both sides rotten and unworthy of my support.
Trump himself brought on the investigation by a) lying about his ties to Russians, (b) lied about his Russian deals, (c) sought campaign help from Russians, and (d) obstructed the investigation.
That the CIA, FBI and other agencies are not good guys isn't the issue here. What is is that Trump did act in a way that focused the investigation on him. He's a serial liar and can't seem to help it but had he told the investigators the truth about his Russian ties and deals and hadn't sought Russian help, he wouldn't have been investigated. He brought that on himself.
Sorry, didn't realize how greatly your partisanship blinds you the threats presented by the authoritarians currently dominating the democratic party. My mistake.
LOL! OK, you are the one who knows the "truth". Anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Got it. You obviously have nothing of value to respond with, just that you're always right because you took the green pill, or was it the blue pill?
Re: your claim that Democratic voters are at least as big a threat as Trump supporters:
Show me where the Democratic voters have acted to suppress voting or tried to overturn an election. Look at what happened when the GOP SCOTUS stopped the vote in Florida that would have found Gore the real winner had the count gone to completion. The Democratic voters did nothing but complain about GOP behavior and SCOTUS interference.
Trump supporters acted to overturn the election because they believed a lie. They refused to evaluate reality and the objective evidence that there was no fraud, as reported by every state's election officials, including Republicans. Trump supporters are an existential threat as they operate on conspiracy theories and not reality.
I try to stick with the original definition of political terms and not the twisted ones that we hear all the time.
To the point of Caitin's post, she states that "It Takes A Lot Of Education To Keep Us This Stupid", which I reject because all one need do is perform true research and one will find objective facts. For example, with regards of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, Covid-19, masks, distancing, its vaccines, etc, all one need do is to reference valid textbooks and look at valid scientific sites and ignore all others. for example, Vincent Racaniello provides his virology lectures and Brianne Barker her immunology lectures on youtube, check them out. He also provides the This Week in Virology podcast (microbe.tv/twiv) that provides objective information.
So, education is the answer. Her allegation about an elite controlling the message goes only as far as an individual's laziness goes. How many anti-vaxxers and Covid-19 is a hoax supporters ever tried to get an education? None. The objective truth is there, just look for it, such as on scholar.google.com, not some conspiracy theory site. Stupid, lazy people are the problem.
So, the problem with the MSM is not that it's complicit in some grand game, it's that reporters and journalist aren't competent enough to report more accurately. Vincent Racaniello disusses this ad nauseum. For example, vaccines do NOT prevent infection, they help reduce the risk of more sever illness, so why does the media say things like "the vaccines fail to prevent infection"?
"So, the problem with the MSM is not that it's complicit in some grand game, it's that reporters and journalist aren't competent enough to report more accurately." Or more accurately, they are not part of an organization that rewards them for doing so. That corporate-owned news entities are indeed complicit in some grand game is to me quite obvious. And those who actually believe they are being informed while being propagandized don't then feel the need to look further for information. This problem exists outside of those who are simply stupid and lazy, as you put it.
OK. You allege that the MSM is part of a grand game, a true conspiracy, as you note, to you it's obvious. What evidence is there that there is a true conspiracy? Link to it.
I know that the media is a problem, but it goes deeper than a mere rich men's club to control information. Reporters aren't necessarily competent. For example, vaccines do not prevent infection, they help reduce the risk of severe illness. So, why does the press say stuff like "the vaccine failed to prevent infection"? Is it part of some anti-vaxxer conspiracy? No. The reporter just doesn't know better, doesn't know the reality that he or she thinks that they do.
However, that being the case, what of the reader? Stupid and lazy I continue to say because information about vaccines are available in just about any virology, bacteriology and immunology textbook out there. People don't take the time to educate themselves, period. They have time to watch "the game" or their favorite TV show, but not to educate themselves.
If more people actually educated themselves, we wouldn't be here. That's my thesis.
I absolutely agree. However, all of them that I know personally ended their support when it became obvious that he is an incompetent with no concern for what they value, that he incessantly lied often with no reason to, his refusal to take responsible action in our interest, and his alignment with GOP policies that they never supported.
To clarify, I'm referring to those that now support him. They are a big problem in this country and pose an existential threat to our democracy and to the very concept of equal opportunity that we had and to every functional ecosystem that we have left.
In attempting to weigh calamities, I would call the current liberal embrace of institutions like the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA, combined with their calls for social media monopolies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google to further censor and monitor their users' content, along with the MSM silence regarding the false imprisoning of Julian Assange, their weaponization of identity politics, and their assimilation of Bush-era war criminals into their fold, to give anything Trump supporters have cooked up a real run for their money when it comes to engendering an "existential threat to our democracy."
You may wish to reconsider your statement.
Why would I reconsider my statement? This isn't about labels, such as your use of "liberal" that implies that I am somehow accusing "conservatives" of being Trump supporters and therefore calling "conservatives" stupid. Far from it as a lot of Trump supporters are far more liberal than I am as they are libertarian, just to the right of the most extreme liberals, anarchists.
Trump promised to drain the swamp and made it worse. His supporters ignore that and lie about it. He did nothing to reverse Bush's and Obama's policies with regards to those agencies and their anti-democratic behavior. His problem with them was that he made himself a target with his lies about his Russian contacts, his attempts at Russian deals, his desire to get Russian help with his campaign and his obstruction into the investigation that those actions brought on.
Trump and his supporters, including elected GOP officials, participated in lying and providing misleading information that resulted in this mess. While calls for censoring such statements is understandable as a democracy requires an informed electorate, I don't know who would be the fair gatekeeper. The stupid among us have shown zero interest in determining the objective reality as they have proven themselves immune from facts.
I'm not trying to imply anything, and I used the term liberal as that is the label commonly used to describe them, however far their politics have strayed from classic liberal values. Political labels are quite meaningless these days but come in handy for posts such as these. I thought my context was clear enough. I agree that this isn't about labels, and I don't buy into the democratic/republican spats that only benefit those in maintaining our rotten status quo: Bush got us Obama who got us Trump who got us Biden. The mess is uninterrupted. They're all rotten as far as I'm concerned, because the system by which they are elevated is itself corrupted.
To the point: Your post identified die-hard Trump supporters as those who pose an existential threat to our democracy (kind of an overused and misused phrase at this point; like we've got this pristine thing in danger of being ruined by this or that faction); I believe those on the democratic side along with establishment republicans who oppose Trump pose at least as big of a threat as Trump's dead-enders. It was this idea I was asking you to consider. Perhaps you already account for this, but your post didn't make that case.
Trump pulled shady deals with the Ukraine and his sycophants don't seem to care that he lies and those who opposed him spread CIA BS about him being Putin's puppet and pee tapes and don't seem to care about those lies either. I find both sides rotten and unworthy of my support.
Re: your statement of Trump being Putin's puppet:
Trump himself brought on the investigation by a) lying about his ties to Russians, (b) lied about his Russian deals, (c) sought campaign help from Russians, and (d) obstructed the investigation.
That the CIA, FBI and other agencies are not good guys isn't the issue here. What is is that Trump did act in a way that focused the investigation on him. He's a serial liar and can't seem to help it but had he told the investigators the truth about his Russian ties and deals and hadn't sought Russian help, he wouldn't have been investigated. He brought that on himself.
Sorry, didn't realize how greatly your partisanship blinds you the threats presented by the authoritarians currently dominating the democratic party. My mistake.
LOL! OK, you are the one who knows the "truth". Anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Got it. You obviously have nothing of value to respond with, just that you're always right because you took the green pill, or was it the blue pill?
Re: your claim that Democratic voters are at least as big a threat as Trump supporters:
Show me where the Democratic voters have acted to suppress voting or tried to overturn an election. Look at what happened when the GOP SCOTUS stopped the vote in Florida that would have found Gore the real winner had the count gone to completion. The Democratic voters did nothing but complain about GOP behavior and SCOTUS interference.
Re: the Existential threat to our democracy:
Trump supporters acted to overturn the election because they believed a lie. They refused to evaluate reality and the objective evidence that there was no fraud, as reported by every state's election officials, including Republicans. Trump supporters are an existential threat as they operate on conspiracy theories and not reality.
Well, I tried.
So you think you're right! That's it, it's not you, it's everyone who disagrees with you. Got it! Thanks.
I try to stick with the original definition of political terms and not the twisted ones that we hear all the time.
To the point of Caitin's post, she states that "It Takes A Lot Of Education To Keep Us This Stupid", which I reject because all one need do is perform true research and one will find objective facts. For example, with regards of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, Covid-19, masks, distancing, its vaccines, etc, all one need do is to reference valid textbooks and look at valid scientific sites and ignore all others. for example, Vincent Racaniello provides his virology lectures and Brianne Barker her immunology lectures on youtube, check them out. He also provides the This Week in Virology podcast (microbe.tv/twiv) that provides objective information.
So, education is the answer. Her allegation about an elite controlling the message goes only as far as an individual's laziness goes. How many anti-vaxxers and Covid-19 is a hoax supporters ever tried to get an education? None. The objective truth is there, just look for it, such as on scholar.google.com, not some conspiracy theory site. Stupid, lazy people are the problem.
So, the problem with the MSM is not that it's complicit in some grand game, it's that reporters and journalist aren't competent enough to report more accurately. Vincent Racaniello disusses this ad nauseum. For example, vaccines do NOT prevent infection, they help reduce the risk of more sever illness, so why does the media say things like "the vaccines fail to prevent infection"?
Caitlin needs to develop her thesis more.
"So, the problem with the MSM is not that it's complicit in some grand game, it's that reporters and journalist aren't competent enough to report more accurately." Or more accurately, they are not part of an organization that rewards them for doing so. That corporate-owned news entities are indeed complicit in some grand game is to me quite obvious. And those who actually believe they are being informed while being propagandized don't then feel the need to look further for information. This problem exists outside of those who are simply stupid and lazy, as you put it.
OK. You allege that the MSM is part of a grand game, a true conspiracy, as you note, to you it's obvious. What evidence is there that there is a true conspiracy? Link to it.
I know that the media is a problem, but it goes deeper than a mere rich men's club to control information. Reporters aren't necessarily competent. For example, vaccines do not prevent infection, they help reduce the risk of severe illness. So, why does the press say stuff like "the vaccine failed to prevent infection"? Is it part of some anti-vaxxer conspiracy? No. The reporter just doesn't know better, doesn't know the reality that he or she thinks that they do.
However, that being the case, what of the reader? Stupid and lazy I continue to say because information about vaccines are available in just about any virology, bacteriology and immunology textbook out there. People don't take the time to educate themselves, period. They have time to watch "the game" or their favorite TV show, but not to educate themselves.
If more people actually educated themselves, we wouldn't be here. That's my thesis.