I have been to a couple of very large demonstrations lately and in both there was a large contingent of Independent Jewish Voices. In any case being "just like gentiles" is not always something I would suggest we work toward either. Which is not to say that I think all gentiles support bloodthirsty war mongers, but there are certainly some issues with dominance for some, especially if they mangage to attain a position of power.
Thanks for posting this, Susan. I am always heartened to hear about some Jewish people speaking up for the Palestinians. But my personal experience is that the overwhelming number of Jews and Israelis are thoroughly brainwashed into a kind of cult-like thinking that they are, well, God's Chosen People. (That's just another way of saying they think they are better than everyone else.)
Back in 2008 when another massacre was being perpetrated against the people of the Gaza Strip ("Operation Cast Lead"), I wrote a simple letter to the editor of a local paper protesting the bombing of UN schools and other civilian infrastructure. The only criticism I levelled was at the State of Israel, not the Jewish people.
And yet, and yet, two Jewish work colleagues who I'd known for years and considered as friends completely shunned me after that. It was an eye-opener for me.
yes, I understand that experience and have had similar issues. still, I see a lot of people in the US and in Canada thinking they are better than people of colour, better than indigenous people, better than LGBTQ people, better than homeless people, better than poor people and on and on. Maybe not quite the same kind of brainwashing about the same kinds of things but still fomenting hatred for people who are perceived as less good. When the Vietnam war was happening and it was Americans doing the killing to "preserve democracy" and to "save Vietnam" from communism many Americans thought they were the good guys. I did too until I went to Paris and met a group of Vietnamese people who hated what the Americans were doing to their country. I don't know quite what to do about Jewish acquaintances who think Israel is their promised land either. But then I also don't have solutions for all those other haters. Mainly I don't want to become like them.
I don't think you have to worry about becoming a "hater," Susan. You have much too big a heart for that.
Your experience meeting Vietnamese people in Paris was interesting - thank you for sharing the story.
Regarding "a lot of people thinking they are better" than group x, y, z... I think I understand what you are referring to, but I have to ask: is this something you are witnessing in real life, or is it a phenomenon you are seeing played out on a screen?
I almost never meet any "supremacists" of any stripe in person, but they seem to be all over the place on the MSM and social media networks. Makes me wonder if we're just being played? There are strong forces at work trying to divide us all against each other right now.
It's certainly not pretty at times, but it's up to each of us not to allow ourselves to be manipulated into hating our brothers and sisters.
I don't meet many who claim to be supremacists, but for sure I meet people who think that people not like them have a suspicious agenda. Mostly people don't come straight out and say these things, but after a while you hear comments about how some people are less hard working or less honest or more prone to violence etc. There is a lot of mistrust and unwillingness to understanding LGBTQ issues. Even on this thread there are people who seem to think that it is Jewishness that is what is causing issues in Gaza and they don't seem to want to consider that may be a bit simplistic as well as anti-semitic. I think that we are programmed by schools, the media, our families to think of some groups of people as lesser than us. It is a difficult topic to discuss here and only slightly less difficult face to face or talking by phone. I have a couple of people who were friends, but now won't talk to me. One over what is happening in Gaza, one because I don't trust billionaires, especially Bill Gates because she thinks he is wonderful and another because I hardly ever support the status quo which gets on her nerves. I don't think we are being played that there are real supremacists among us. It can be difficult not to feel hatred toward some of the thinking. That old parenting advice "talk about the behaviour, not the person" is something that is probably good for all of us to remember.
“I meet people who think that people not like them have a suspicious agenda.”
I think what you are describing is actually a pretty universal phenomenon. It’s always easier to trust people who are part of your own cultural group (regardless of what cultural group that happens to be) because every culture has its own set of “unspoken rules.”
I know perfectly well how to interpret a subtle facial expression, a particular hand gesture, or a certain tone of voice when I’m amongst people from my own cultural group… but throw me into a situation where I’m interacting with people who are from another culture, and the opportunities for me to be misunderstood, or for me to misunderstand others, increases exponentially.
Hence, less trust, more suspicion.
This isn’t to say that we can’t interact in a positive way with people who are culturally different from us – on the contrary, such situations can be great opportunities to learn more about others and ourselves. But IMHO, interacting in a respectful way with members of a different culture requires acknowledging and being honest about our differences.
I’m sorry to hear that you have friends who won’t speak to you because you have different perspectives on some of the more pressing issues of our day. I’ve had people stop talking to me as well, and if I’m honest, there are also a few people I just don’t feel like having much to do with anymore, either. It does feel like we are going through a great “sorting” right now, and the dissolution of some relationships, both with family members and friends, seems to be an inevitable part of that.
These are confusing times. For myself, I find one way to stay anchored is to follow the adage, “know thyself.”
And what religion are most of the "bloodthirsty war mongers" in the US government? Of the few who aren't Jewish, how many received no funds from AIPAC? Let's be real here: the US is a vassal state of Israel and those wars are wars for Israel.
And every single one of those politicians who took money from them and represent a foreign government HAVE COMMITTED TREASON! I want to start a demand for the military to go arrest every fucking one of these traitors!
I understand that Israel’s behavior is bolstering those who were already antisemitic, but please don’t do that. No people is monolithic. If one judged all Americans by the behavior of our government, Americans would not be welcomed anywhere on the planet.
"MANY people of the Jewish faith oppose what Israel's military is and has been doing."
I don't see the evidence for this. Sure, there are exceptions, but the exception makes the rule.
What I see is a lot of Gentiles wanting to believe, against overwhelming evidence, that Jews are just like them.
I have been to a couple of very large demonstrations lately and in both there was a large contingent of Independent Jewish Voices. In any case being "just like gentiles" is not always something I would suggest we work toward either. Which is not to say that I think all gentiles support bloodthirsty war mongers, but there are certainly some issues with dominance for some, especially if they mangage to attain a position of power.
Thanks for posting this, Susan. I am always heartened to hear about some Jewish people speaking up for the Palestinians. But my personal experience is that the overwhelming number of Jews and Israelis are thoroughly brainwashed into a kind of cult-like thinking that they are, well, God's Chosen People. (That's just another way of saying they think they are better than everyone else.)
Back in 2008 when another massacre was being perpetrated against the people of the Gaza Strip ("Operation Cast Lead"), I wrote a simple letter to the editor of a local paper protesting the bombing of UN schools and other civilian infrastructure. The only criticism I levelled was at the State of Israel, not the Jewish people.
And yet, and yet, two Jewish work colleagues who I'd known for years and considered as friends completely shunned me after that. It was an eye-opener for me.
yes, I understand that experience and have had similar issues. still, I see a lot of people in the US and in Canada thinking they are better than people of colour, better than indigenous people, better than LGBTQ people, better than homeless people, better than poor people and on and on. Maybe not quite the same kind of brainwashing about the same kinds of things but still fomenting hatred for people who are perceived as less good. When the Vietnam war was happening and it was Americans doing the killing to "preserve democracy" and to "save Vietnam" from communism many Americans thought they were the good guys. I did too until I went to Paris and met a group of Vietnamese people who hated what the Americans were doing to their country. I don't know quite what to do about Jewish acquaintances who think Israel is their promised land either. But then I also don't have solutions for all those other haters. Mainly I don't want to become like them.
I don't think you have to worry about becoming a "hater," Susan. You have much too big a heart for that.
Your experience meeting Vietnamese people in Paris was interesting - thank you for sharing the story.
Regarding "a lot of people thinking they are better" than group x, y, z... I think I understand what you are referring to, but I have to ask: is this something you are witnessing in real life, or is it a phenomenon you are seeing played out on a screen?
I almost never meet any "supremacists" of any stripe in person, but they seem to be all over the place on the MSM and social media networks. Makes me wonder if we're just being played? There are strong forces at work trying to divide us all against each other right now.
It's certainly not pretty at times, but it's up to each of us not to allow ourselves to be manipulated into hating our brothers and sisters.
I don't meet many who claim to be supremacists, but for sure I meet people who think that people not like them have a suspicious agenda. Mostly people don't come straight out and say these things, but after a while you hear comments about how some people are less hard working or less honest or more prone to violence etc. There is a lot of mistrust and unwillingness to understanding LGBTQ issues. Even on this thread there are people who seem to think that it is Jewishness that is what is causing issues in Gaza and they don't seem to want to consider that may be a bit simplistic as well as anti-semitic. I think that we are programmed by schools, the media, our families to think of some groups of people as lesser than us. It is a difficult topic to discuss here and only slightly less difficult face to face or talking by phone. I have a couple of people who were friends, but now won't talk to me. One over what is happening in Gaza, one because I don't trust billionaires, especially Bill Gates because she thinks he is wonderful and another because I hardly ever support the status quo which gets on her nerves. I don't think we are being played that there are real supremacists among us. It can be difficult not to feel hatred toward some of the thinking. That old parenting advice "talk about the behaviour, not the person" is something that is probably good for all of us to remember.
“I meet people who think that people not like them have a suspicious agenda.”
I think what you are describing is actually a pretty universal phenomenon. It’s always easier to trust people who are part of your own cultural group (regardless of what cultural group that happens to be) because every culture has its own set of “unspoken rules.”
I know perfectly well how to interpret a subtle facial expression, a particular hand gesture, or a certain tone of voice when I’m amongst people from my own cultural group… but throw me into a situation where I’m interacting with people who are from another culture, and the opportunities for me to be misunderstood, or for me to misunderstand others, increases exponentially.
Hence, less trust, more suspicion.
This isn’t to say that we can’t interact in a positive way with people who are culturally different from us – on the contrary, such situations can be great opportunities to learn more about others and ourselves. But IMHO, interacting in a respectful way with members of a different culture requires acknowledging and being honest about our differences.
I’m sorry to hear that you have friends who won’t speak to you because you have different perspectives on some of the more pressing issues of our day. I’ve had people stop talking to me as well, and if I’m honest, there are also a few people I just don’t feel like having much to do with anymore, either. It does feel like we are going through a great “sorting” right now, and the dissolution of some relationships, both with family members and friends, seems to be an inevitable part of that.
These are confusing times. For myself, I find one way to stay anchored is to follow the adage, “know thyself.”
And what religion are most of the "bloodthirsty war mongers" in the US government? Of the few who aren't Jewish, how many received no funds from AIPAC? Let's be real here: the US is a vassal state of Israel and those wars are wars for Israel.
And every single one of those politicians who took money from them and represent a foreign government HAVE COMMITTED TREASON! I want to start a demand for the military to go arrest every fucking one of these traitors!
I understand that Israel’s behavior is bolstering those who were already antisemitic, but please don’t do that. No people is monolithic. If one judged all Americans by the behavior of our government, Americans would not be welcomed anywhere on the planet.
How big does the pile of dead Palestinian babies have to get before we stop worrying about antisemitism?
A commenter rightly pointed out the other day that American weapons manufacturers are profiting big-time from the Gaza massacre.
The bombs and warplanes are the “hard” weapons. The “soft” weapon being peddled is all of this hand-wringing about hurting the Jews’ feelings.
Exactly! Thank you for that..