"The surest path toward a healthy society" is doing real things that can produce tangible results in the specific circumstances of a given moment on a daily basis. The surest path away from a healthy society is indulging in online circle jerking on a daily basis to create yourself this nice little illusion that you are "never really alone"...
I read your "Brutal Reality" article. It talks about very concrete things. And it draws an absolutely correct conclusion. That is indeed the only realistic winning strategy. Now, could you tell me how Ms Johnstone's repetitive bloviations and preaching to the choir in this echo chamber are supposed to contribute in practical terms to realizing that strategy you lay out in your article?
I can see why you take issue with Caitlin on the strategies needed to make a real difference. I'm sure she has been pondering this problem as well as many people who care are trying to figure out. But you have to admit, it's a tall order. As I see it, the best way to bring about a transformative movement is through stories. The kind of stories that can invite people to grasp the following:
“Our society actually exists as a kind of negative afterimage. We all live in a crazy, backward world, often unaware of the lies and double messages we are given. If we could be free for a moment to catch a glimpse of our true situation, if we could view our society as a visitor from another planet, we would be stunned at the nightmare in which we live. The things we are expected to believe about ourselves and about society are frequently the very opposite of the way things really are. Unhappily, the individual and all the members of our society are often unconsciously working together to maintain a largely defensive and dishonest way of living" (From Dr. Robert Firestone's book: Psychological defenses in everyday life.
I believe that stories -with the right message and the characters- can have the potential to awaken people in ways we never thought possible. If propaganda can move millions of people to commit atrocities, it can also be used for good.
In order to change the world, I go out with Food Not Bombs occasionally and give people soup. It may be virtual signaling or bullshit, but at least they get a free meal that day.
"preaching to the choir in this echo chamber" - She tweets and posts on other platforms referring to these articles and so targets folks outside the choir.
I don't believe all commenters here constitute Caitlin's choir, either. The OP seemed to think that though, hence the quote.
You are one of the characters of this forum and I like your approach of frequently voicing your views through stories. Whether true or not doesn't really matter.
Apparently a lot of people need to hear certain things said repeatedly in order to get them, or having gotten them, to continue to believe in them, to be reassured, and finally to move on to doing something about them. Bloviation may have its uses. Indeed, as I look down the mountain with Zarathustra, we see many who Need Help.
I liked your comment and George Carazo's reply because I believe there's a place fo both approaches. I have chosen to focus on the tangible results factor now. I believe it is the highest ROI in a time of rapidly evolving dystopia and increasingly desperation regarding unmet existential needs. The reality Covid, East Palistine, Ukraine and so much more, should be enough to have the conscious aware of what to expect from our completely compromised institutions. Those of us old enough to have witnessed and understood how we'd evolve to this sad end can only hope those younger have enough evidence set before them now. I hope those who chose to continue Caitlin's route, awaken more to direct action. I'm confident that approach, which I was stuck in for a long time, is covered. But the actual work to endure what is endlessly evidenced, is barely started. I also hope the communial organization to meet such common needs, may help awaken people to the reality that despite our highly manipulated tribal insanity, we have needs in common, with even those others have crafted blood feuds between, to distract from their psychopathic avarice.
It's good news that you are about "tangible results" now. Knowledge is nickel-and-dime if it doesn't translate into "right" action.That being said, I've nothing against sound theories and educational efforts. But I don't think that Ms Johnstone's writings qualify as either. As far as I can see, she isn't awakening people to direct action (the only viable option in the present situation) or challenging the "Empire" in any other meaningful way. She is downright carrying water for it, even if inadvertently to an extent. I can go into detail if you're interested. But I'd like to give Mr Black some more time to answer the question first. Maybe I'm missing something here and he knows stuff I don’t..
Re: "repetitive bloviations and preaching to the choir in this echo chamber." I'm new to Caitlin's work, but I think I might be able to answer that with at least one perspective; there might be others.
Erich Fromm's classic "Escape From Freedom" discusses two kinds of isolation that lead people to choose between submitting to Fascism (eh, it was published in 1941) or a mutually supportive community of individuals: physical isolation and moral isolation. A monk in a cell can tolerate the physical isolation because he feels morally connected to the outside world. But, moral isolation, i.e., a lack of connection through traditions, understanding, etc., can be the crushing blow that leads to submission to exploitative forces. Work like Caitlin's help mitigate the perception of moral isolation.
Plus, even though the "choir" may share some common principles, from what I've read so far, Caitlin adeptly presents nuances to arguments and perspectives that are helpful for others to consider and either argue against to strengthen her arguments or adopt and use in their interaction with others in their path outside this particular corner of society.
The beginning of healing comes from awakening from the dream, by at least a few of us... PP
The best of ideas from J. Krishnamurti
Look with eyes that are not confused. There will be confusion only when there is division between the observer and the observed. This division takes place when there is the image, the formula, the concept, the ideal. Therefore self-knowing, knowing oneself as one is, is the beginning of wisdom, which cannot possibly be bought in books. One has to observe oneself, not analysing but observing oneself in relationship, because in relationship all your reactions come out – your antagonisms, your fears, your anxieties, your bitterness, your loneliness. Without understanding all that, to find out if there is something beyond all human thought, if there is something real, true, is not possible. Therefore one must lay the foundation, and to lay the foundation one must observe one’s life daily without any distortion.
Seriously? I beg to differ, sir.
"The surest path toward a healthy society" is doing real things that can produce tangible results in the specific circumstances of a given moment on a daily basis. The surest path away from a healthy society is indulging in online circle jerking on a daily basis to create yourself this nice little illusion that you are "never really alone"...
I read your "Brutal Reality" article. It talks about very concrete things. And it draws an absolutely correct conclusion. That is indeed the only realistic winning strategy. Now, could you tell me how Ms Johnstone's repetitive bloviations and preaching to the choir in this echo chamber are supposed to contribute in practical terms to realizing that strategy you lay out in your article?
I can see why you take issue with Caitlin on the strategies needed to make a real difference. I'm sure she has been pondering this problem as well as many people who care are trying to figure out. But you have to admit, it's a tall order. As I see it, the best way to bring about a transformative movement is through stories. The kind of stories that can invite people to grasp the following:
“Our society actually exists as a kind of negative afterimage. We all live in a crazy, backward world, often unaware of the lies and double messages we are given. If we could be free for a moment to catch a glimpse of our true situation, if we could view our society as a visitor from another planet, we would be stunned at the nightmare in which we live. The things we are expected to believe about ourselves and about society are frequently the very opposite of the way things really are. Unhappily, the individual and all the members of our society are often unconsciously working together to maintain a largely defensive and dishonest way of living" (From Dr. Robert Firestone's book: Psychological defenses in everyday life.
I believe that stories -with the right message and the characters- can have the potential to awaken people in ways we never thought possible. If propaganda can move millions of people to commit atrocities, it can also be used for good.
In order to change the world, I go out with Food Not Bombs occasionally and give people soup. It may be virtual signaling or bullshit, but at least they get a free meal that day.
Thank you for helping out FNB. They do such good work. And feeding others is all that really matters, isn't it?
But that's not what happens.
"preaching to the choir in this echo chamber" - She tweets and posts on other platforms referring to these articles and so targets folks outside the choir.
You'd probably want her to also be a politician, engineer, astronaut, professor, etc. For that we have Shania Twain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQGFFYEIfhU
There is a huge need for the knowledge to spread.
And even if it might not "translate directly into action" yet it might hopefully cause simmering among those waking up.
I don't believe all commenters here constitute Caitlin's choir, either. The OP seemed to think that though, hence the quote.
You are one of the characters of this forum and I like your approach of frequently voicing your views through stories. Whether true or not doesn't really matter.
Apparently a lot of people need to hear certain things said repeatedly in order to get them, or having gotten them, to continue to believe in them, to be reassured, and finally to move on to doing something about them. Bloviation may have its uses. Indeed, as I look down the mountain with Zarathustra, we see many who Need Help.
I liked your comment and George Carazo's reply because I believe there's a place fo both approaches. I have chosen to focus on the tangible results factor now. I believe it is the highest ROI in a time of rapidly evolving dystopia and increasingly desperation regarding unmet existential needs. The reality Covid, East Palistine, Ukraine and so much more, should be enough to have the conscious aware of what to expect from our completely compromised institutions. Those of us old enough to have witnessed and understood how we'd evolve to this sad end can only hope those younger have enough evidence set before them now. I hope those who chose to continue Caitlin's route, awaken more to direct action. I'm confident that approach, which I was stuck in for a long time, is covered. But the actual work to endure what is endlessly evidenced, is barely started. I also hope the communial organization to meet such common needs, may help awaken people to the reality that despite our highly manipulated tribal insanity, we have needs in common, with even those others have crafted blood feuds between, to distract from their psychopathic avarice.
It's good news that you are about "tangible results" now. Knowledge is nickel-and-dime if it doesn't translate into "right" action.That being said, I've nothing against sound theories and educational efforts. But I don't think that Ms Johnstone's writings qualify as either. As far as I can see, she isn't awakening people to direct action (the only viable option in the present situation) or challenging the "Empire" in any other meaningful way. She is downright carrying water for it, even if inadvertently to an extent. I can go into detail if you're interested. But I'd like to give Mr Black some more time to answer the question first. Maybe I'm missing something here and he knows stuff I don’t..
Re: "repetitive bloviations and preaching to the choir in this echo chamber." I'm new to Caitlin's work, but I think I might be able to answer that with at least one perspective; there might be others.
Erich Fromm's classic "Escape From Freedom" discusses two kinds of isolation that lead people to choose between submitting to Fascism (eh, it was published in 1941) or a mutually supportive community of individuals: physical isolation and moral isolation. A monk in a cell can tolerate the physical isolation because he feels morally connected to the outside world. But, moral isolation, i.e., a lack of connection through traditions, understanding, etc., can be the crushing blow that leads to submission to exploitative forces. Work like Caitlin's help mitigate the perception of moral isolation.
Plus, even though the "choir" may share some common principles, from what I've read so far, Caitlin adeptly presents nuances to arguments and perspectives that are helpful for others to consider and either argue against to strengthen her arguments or adopt and use in their interaction with others in their path outside this particular corner of society.
Plus, plus, plus....
The beginning of healing comes from awakening from the dream, by at least a few of us... PP
The best of ideas from J. Krishnamurti
Look with eyes that are not confused. There will be confusion only when there is division between the observer and the observed. This division takes place when there is the image, the formula, the concept, the ideal. Therefore self-knowing, knowing oneself as one is, is the beginning of wisdom, which cannot possibly be bought in books. One has to observe oneself, not analysing but observing oneself in relationship, because in relationship all your reactions come out – your antagonisms, your fears, your anxieties, your bitterness, your loneliness. Without understanding all that, to find out if there is something beyond all human thought, if there is something real, true, is not possible. Therefore one must lay the foundation, and to lay the foundation one must observe one’s life daily without any distortion.
From Public Talk 1, Sydney, 21 November 1970