This is why so many are needlessly stuck on psychotropic meds to deal with anxiety and depression: "A huge amount of the anxiety and depression your clients bring you cannot be resolved in therapy because they arise from the poverty, toil and lack of support which is built into the abusive and exploitative society in which we live."
It's one reason I like working in 12 Step groups and staying away from the pill pushing doctors. Medicating people into "feeling better" about their life in this sick and twisted society isn't helping them or society. It's making more unhappy and unwell people. We need to acknowledge that it's the system that is sick, and that our reactions to it are normal and to be expected and that we can help each other deal with it and make things better. Thanks for pointing this out, Caitlin!
I asked my doctor for help with depression, and he told me there was a two year waiting list to get onto the waiting list to see a psychologist. But as a 'favour', he sent me to a psychiatrist friend of his who had an hour spare soon.
Despite misgivings, I went. Towards the end, he said i could choose any pills I wanted, and he recommended something that would "Reduce the complexities". I was incredulous, and enraged. I pointed out to him that intelligence is literally the ability to spot patterns, which he shifted nervously about and agreed. And then I pointed that therefore he was offering me a pill to be STUPID. He was not at all happy about this insight, and we ended on pretty bad terms. But he paid me back: he wrote a REALLY nasty report that went into my permanent medical records - DESPITE my demanding of my doctor it be removed, he point blank refused.
That'll teach me to go meet with pill-pushing dealers who hand out drugs they refuse to take themselves. Good people these most certainly are not. I guess he got a free golfing holiday if he pushed enough of them out.
Thanks for the warning. If the doctor doesn't like you they can blemish your record. Fortunately, I've been anti-doctor my whole adult life and have no medical records of any kind.
I wish I could say the same but at 72 years old I have been put in the position of needing surgery on a very nasty double hernia. In the last few months they have acquired more information on me than they acquired in the previous 54 years. It is upsetting but I have no choice if I want to continue my independent back country lifestyle.
Israeli intelligence monitors all American and British healthcare data. Do what you have to and then keep away. Most doctors do not understand medicine or healing. And their diagnostic skills are pretty bad. Be careful. Doctors are taught to dispense drugs.
Been there done that. Almost Died. Living in retirement. Loving God and enjoining good ethical business and people brave enough to show goodness mercy and compassion. We who love God and fellowship are among you. Try smiling first.
How dare you speak your mind! Affronting those in the know.
Take the pill prescription, pick them up - but dont take them. Medical report evaluations are done looking at what you have been prescribed and are taking (in general, except maybe a very caring primary care physician, or specialist, no one is interested about your "progress") - which in turn may give you the financial benefit, from the powers in charge, that you want.
If you realize how much pharma reps are making per year, compared to ie individuals working in non-medical R&D, or as an engineer, it makes your head spin....
The USA is the Wild West for the pharma industry, in the true sense of the meaning.
And you first have to become seriously sick, before the doctor is able to prescribe the medication that would have prevented that sickness.
You might be interested in the book "A Profession Without Reason", by Bruce Levine. A critique of contemporary psychiatry partly based on the philosophy of Spinoza. And from my neurobiological perspective, the brain is a far too complex adaptive system for them to really understand what those single or dual-pathway biochemistry-altering drugs are doing -- what their consequences really are in the brains of individual patients whose life experiences are reflected in nuances in those brain pathways..
Psychiatry is a quack 'profession'; from beginning to end. I'd advise nobody to have any dealings with them.
They are using their "patients" as pure, unpaid guinea pigs, and wash their hands when it inevitably goes wrong. Frankly, street-dealers usually have more credibility and honesty. I know which of two *I'd* be locking up.
Yeah that's him. Bruce is down on antidepressants and positively hostile to antipsychotics, and of course I agree with him; they're neuronal poisons. The book came out in '22 but I somehow stumbled on it a few months ago. It's thick with Spinoza in places, but his head is definitely in the right place with respect to the voodoo, or quack, if you prefer.
You're only a bit more hostile toward the entire psych entrerprise than me, I'm more globally hostile toward pharma on all drug pushing fronts, like this latest craze to get people to shut down their freaking gut motility - Ozempic et al. This shit is a violation of human physiology and should be against the law.
We must have nothing to do with their systems. When we make that decision, we will find other systems or start them ourselves. Good doctors are laving orthodox medicine now and starting private member associations to take patients.
Use it as awake up call to pull yourself out of your depression. Focus on the realization that these people are pure greedy evil actors. Use your anger to find your inner strength. You don't need drugs and Quacks to tell you what is wrong with you. Look inside to what you know is right with you and you will be alright. Less delicately put Screw them. They are all part of the fearmongering cartel that is big pharma.
I have suffered from clinical depression since childhood. It had nothing to do with poverty or abuse. I grew up solidly middle class with a particularly loving father.
I have three suicide attempts under my belt.
I suffered anorexia as a teenager.
When I developed full blown OCD in my late 20’s, it was time for professional help. For anyone who has not experienced this, I assure you it is HELL ON EARTH. A wonderful psychiatrist literally saved my life with the correct antidepressant.
I have since had to switch because after 20 years the original one stopped working. Now I have another wonderful psychiatrist who got me on a different one that works well for me.
Nothing makes me angrier than people who describe antidepressants as a “feel-good” drug. It is a CORRECTIVE drug, and no different than diabetics who take insulin.
I'm glad you found a wonderful doctor to help you, Gypsy. I'm not against medicines per se for folks with depression, but I am against the over-prescribing of meds for those who might not actually need them, and can start feeling better through talk therapy alone. But I worked in a psych ward at a VA hospital, and I know that some of the guys wouldn't have made it through their rehab without the help of anti-depressants or other meds to treat their condition. There is no "one size fits all solution" to any problem a person might have. We need a universal health care system in the US that will provide both talk therapies and meds when folks need them and without putting people into bankruptcy trying to pay for them!
Well, some things we can pin down. You were unhappy, for one. Serotonin made you happier, for another. (Hardly a surprise to any clubbers from the 90s).
Presumably, there was one or several causes for your unhappiness. Also presumably, you never saw a psychologist to dig deep to find that - you were happy with the band-aid of the chemical stimulant, it ticked your boxes, and you felt better. Sure, it didn't CURE you, but at least you're still alive.
Now, you would be a remarkable person indeed if you'd never had previous experiences that made you unhappy, and you don't like thinking of them. The same goes for my Danish friend.
I'm not opposed, and neither is the critical scientist above, to short-term remedies as interventions. But when they become life-long, there starts to be a problem. Your brain adapts, you see. And that is something you REALLY don't want to happen. Addictions are nasty, whether the drugs are illegal or legal. But you're OK with that, it seems.
What stuns me is that you ignore the vast quantity of data that overwhelmingly points to these dangerous drugs being misusued, and countless millions severely harmed by them. Are YOU the only person that matters? I don't believe you think that - although the drugs themselves do tend to boost the ego, despite the best efforts of the underlying person. They reduce empathy - and empathy is usually, but not always, where the psychological trouble began.
I would strongly advise to find a therapist who is able to unpick your life BEFORE you started on the drug treatment, although in all truth the changes from long-term addiction will always leave their imprint.
If you are at all like my friend, you won't even have read this far, and all you will be seeing is bright red rage.
Druggies are impossible to argue with, same as alcoholics. To compare antidepressants with insulin is preposterous. Like comparing nicotine with marijuana.
The main question is - does the drug alter your mind? Does it affect (correct/heal in equivocal manipulative language) your personality? If yes, you should recognize you're under the influence, you're not yourself, you're DUI, DWI (replace the D with appropriate action).
Everybody suffers from some mental conditions at one point or another, or constantly to a certain degree. EVERYBODY. The fact some are weaker than others is just that - they are weaker mentally. But then it's true about physical characteristics. Only imbeciles start pumping themselves with steroids to try to match somebody who naturally is stronger. The normies take their condition and adapt it to their lives.
Anyway, I don't mean to fix or correct anybody. Just saying my piece.
Actually, nicotine and MJ do have similar psychotropic effects, albeit one is considerably weaker.
Did you when Raleigh met the Amerindians, the locals had two variants? One, tobacco rusticus, had a stronger psychedelic effect, and low addictiveness. the other, far less commonly smoked for obvious reasons, had lower psychedelic effect but considerably higher addictiveness?
Take one guess which one the English ruling classes brought back for sale.
But a simple test of this is to grab a vape, and high - 18 or 24+ strength liquid, and take some really big lungfuls. You'll be tripping, and not in a nice way.
ALL drugs affect personality, as your personality also includes your physical state.
"Everybody suffers from some mental conditions at one point or another, or constantly to a certain degree. EVERYBODY."
Yes.
"The fact some are weaker than others is just that - they are weaker mentally."
Define "weaker"? Some may be more vulnerable to some experiences, and yet will brush other experiences of with a shrug, that would destroy a person barely affected by the former. People can have weak moments, when something they would normally shrug off hurts them greatly. And vice versa.
Everyone can be helped through those experiences, so they become integrated, dealt with, and the individual becomes stronger.
An alcoholic from childhood abuse may be the bravest person in a crowd in certain situations.
It really doesn't help to see some as 'weaker', and some as 'stronger'. those are far too rigid definitions. Especially where chemicals are concerned.
Physically, it may be simpler, but even there, in moments of stress I've seen physically weak people do extraordinary things, and physically strong people back off and hide.
Human beings are extraordinarily complex creatures, not to be shoved into boxes.
Everyone would benefit from meditation, just as they would daily physical exercises. A muscle trained is a stronger muscle.
Drugs can be a useful tool in many psychological areas, microdosing shrooms has shown to reduce depression in EVERYONE, with little to no side-effects.
As Terrance McKenna argued, we evolved alongside psychedelic drugs, they are a part of our heritage. We may not even be sane without them. Needless to say, misuse can push us in the opposite direction too.
"nicotine and MJ do have similar psychotropic effects" - have you heard of a cop writing a ticket to somebody for having smoked too many cigarettes?
Of course nicotine has an effect. It's stimulating, clarifying, whatever. But it doesn't impair you or change your personality. You still are who you are.
"Define "weaker"" - in terms of how people overcome those moments.
And once again - I do not slight people for being weak, everyone is at some points to some degree. I am though for people to be honest about it and not make excuses for submitting to drugs and claiming it's normal. It's not. If you can't handle yourself without drugs or alcohol - fine, but admit it. That's all.
I can assure you that tobacco changes your personality. It may not impair certain abilities - such as driving - as much as say LSD, or whiskey, nonetheless a smoker - ie, an addict - has a marked change in personality from the drug.
The same is also true of coffee, and to a lesser extent tea. There are some people who should not be behind a wheel after drinking coffee - or on withdrawal from coffee.
The only difference really is that these are 'socially acceptable' drugs, not that they do not have significant changes to mood and behaviour.
In places where pot has been socially acceptable also for generations, people would look at you for being weird for claiming it was dangerous, or harmful, in moderate doses. Ever talked to a hardcore Muslim about alcohol, and heard how deranged they are about even one mouthful of beer? Well, that's how it'd comes across in those societies.
I don't think societies should be limiting people's choices, certainly not through coercion and threats of extreme violence, such as "Imprisonment"; at the same time, I agree that individuals must also take the full consequences of their actions, and not try to claim "The drug made me do it". No, that's BS. I've been drunk many, many times, but I've never even remotely tried to rape someone. That's not the alcohol, that's YOU, buddy.
But this distinction between 'drugs', and 'drug-free' is largely false. Historically, it comes down to whether the item could be controlled and taxed by and for elites. When you look at it biochemically, you find it gets a great deal more complicated. Look up the effects of processed sugar on the nervous system, fx. If you think that's funny, try giving up ALL products with sugar in for 3 months. You'll find all the symptoms of drug addiction as you go through that, if you know what they are.
"Just one little bit won't hurt..." - just as any old heroin addict who can't quit.
Obviously, these 'natural' - or more natural - drugs are not in the same league as the manufactured utterly synthetics of Big Harma. Opium is a millionth less harmful and addictive than the Big Harma synthetic opioids. Even so, opium destroyed an entire civilisation under British gunboats to force entry.
People have been killed due to caffeine withdrawal. And nicotine withdrawal. Especially nicotine withdrawal.
Ultimately, "You are what you eat", or more generally, imbibe. It ALL affects your mood, behaviour, psychology, consciousness. I cut out meat for two years in my late 20s - I was a different person in important respects.
What I'm getting at here, badly, and longwindedly, is that generally the distinction of "drugs" is entirely synthetic itself. It is socially subjective - to some extent.
Every single person on this planet, is addicted to SOMETHING. Be it meat, sugar, salt, heroin, dope, alcohol, tobacco, or their phones (But that's another topic).
Pointing fingers of superiority at others is ignoring our own problems, which we only admit in secret to ourselves in the dead of night.
We're all addicts. Every single one of us. Addiction is part of the Human Experience.
I'm cool with that, and maybe you are too.
But I'd like the pill-pushing "psychiatrists" to simply call themselves the more honest "Dealers".
This is why so many are needlessly stuck on psychotropic meds to deal with anxiety and depression: "A huge amount of the anxiety and depression your clients bring you cannot be resolved in therapy because they arise from the poverty, toil and lack of support which is built into the abusive and exploitative society in which we live."
It's one reason I like working in 12 Step groups and staying away from the pill pushing doctors. Medicating people into "feeling better" about their life in this sick and twisted society isn't helping them or society. It's making more unhappy and unwell people. We need to acknowledge that it's the system that is sick, and that our reactions to it are normal and to be expected and that we can help each other deal with it and make things better. Thanks for pointing this out, Caitlin!
I asked my doctor for help with depression, and he told me there was a two year waiting list to get onto the waiting list to see a psychologist. But as a 'favour', he sent me to a psychiatrist friend of his who had an hour spare soon.
Despite misgivings, I went. Towards the end, he said i could choose any pills I wanted, and he recommended something that would "Reduce the complexities". I was incredulous, and enraged. I pointed out to him that intelligence is literally the ability to spot patterns, which he shifted nervously about and agreed. And then I pointed that therefore he was offering me a pill to be STUPID. He was not at all happy about this insight, and we ended on pretty bad terms. But he paid me back: he wrote a REALLY nasty report that went into my permanent medical records - DESPITE my demanding of my doctor it be removed, he point blank refused.
That'll teach me to go meet with pill-pushing dealers who hand out drugs they refuse to take themselves. Good people these most certainly are not. I guess he got a free golfing holiday if he pushed enough of them out.
Thanks for the warning. If the doctor doesn't like you they can blemish your record. Fortunately, I've been anti-doctor my whole adult life and have no medical records of any kind.
I wish I could say the same but at 72 years old I have been put in the position of needing surgery on a very nasty double hernia. In the last few months they have acquired more information on me than they acquired in the previous 54 years. It is upsetting but I have no choice if I want to continue my independent back country lifestyle.
Yes, that kind of thing - a definitely necessary op to maintain your independent lifestyle - is different - good luck.
Thank you Judy.
Israeli intelligence monitors all American and British healthcare data. Do what you have to and then keep away. Most doctors do not understand medicine or healing. And their diagnostic skills are pretty bad. Be careful. Doctors are taught to dispense drugs.
Just say no and mean what you say. Like all cowards they tuck tail and run when stood up to.
Been there done that. Almost Died. Living in retirement. Loving God and enjoining good ethical business and people brave enough to show goodness mercy and compassion. We who love God and fellowship are among you. Try smiling first.
How dare you speak your mind! Affronting those in the know.
Take the pill prescription, pick them up - but dont take them. Medical report evaluations are done looking at what you have been prescribed and are taking (in general, except maybe a very caring primary care physician, or specialist, no one is interested about your "progress") - which in turn may give you the financial benefit, from the powers in charge, that you want.
If you realize how much pharma reps are making per year, compared to ie individuals working in non-medical R&D, or as an engineer, it makes your head spin....
The USA is the Wild West for the pharma industry, in the true sense of the meaning.
And you first have to become seriously sick, before the doctor is able to prescribe the medication that would have prevented that sickness.
America. The beautiful.
You might be interested in the book "A Profession Without Reason", by Bruce Levine. A critique of contemporary psychiatry partly based on the philosophy of Spinoza. And from my neurobiological perspective, the brain is a far too complex adaptive system for them to really understand what those single or dual-pathway biochemistry-altering drugs are doing -- what their consequences really are in the brains of individual patients whose life experiences are reflected in nuances in those brain pathways..
Psychiatry is a quack 'profession'; from beginning to end. I'd advise nobody to have any dealings with them.
They are using their "patients" as pure, unpaid guinea pigs, and wash their hands when it inevitably goes wrong. Frankly, street-dealers usually have more credibility and honesty. I know which of two *I'd* be locking up.
You might enjoy:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/29/do-you-still-believe-in-the-chemical-imbalance-theory-of-mental-illness/
I thought I'd recognised the name. I try to catch all of his articles on CP. Hadn't realised he'd written books tbh.
Yeah that's him. Bruce is down on antidepressants and positively hostile to antipsychotics, and of course I agree with him; they're neuronal poisons. The book came out in '22 but I somehow stumbled on it a few months ago. It's thick with Spinoza in places, but his head is definitely in the right place with respect to the voodoo, or quack, if you prefer.
Voodoo - more correctly Hoodoo - has infinitely more validity than psychiatry.
They are toxic drugs, from toxic people, created by toxic industries.
Imo the aim of the entire industry is to create drugs that will force people to be 'happy slaves', aka 'Soma'.
"Sure, the life of a slave is miserable, but with this wonder drug, we can make them accept it placidly!".
And the patients of the past 40+ years have been the unpaid, and often unwilling, guinea pigs of the sadists.
You're only a bit more hostile toward the entire psych entrerprise than me, I'm more globally hostile toward pharma on all drug pushing fronts, like this latest craze to get people to shut down their freaking gut motility - Ozempic et al. This shit is a violation of human physiology and should be against the law.
You are full of shit. Read my reply above to the Revolution Continues.
We must have nothing to do with their systems. When we make that decision, we will find other systems or start them ourselves. Good doctors are laving orthodox medicine now and starting private member associations to take patients.
Use it as awake up call to pull yourself out of your depression. Focus on the realization that these people are pure greedy evil actors. Use your anger to find your inner strength. You don't need drugs and Quacks to tell you what is wrong with you. Look inside to what you know is right with you and you will be alright. Less delicately put Screw them. They are all part of the fearmongering cartel that is big pharma.
Hi TRC
I have suffered from clinical depression since childhood. It had nothing to do with poverty or abuse. I grew up solidly middle class with a particularly loving father.
I have three suicide attempts under my belt.
I suffered anorexia as a teenager.
When I developed full blown OCD in my late 20’s, it was time for professional help. For anyone who has not experienced this, I assure you it is HELL ON EARTH. A wonderful psychiatrist literally saved my life with the correct antidepressant.
I have since had to switch because after 20 years the original one stopped working. Now I have another wonderful psychiatrist who got me on a different one that works well for me.
Nothing makes me angrier than people who describe antidepressants as a “feel-good” drug. It is a CORRECTIVE drug, and no different than diabetics who take insulin.
I'm glad you found a wonderful doctor to help you, Gypsy. I'm not against medicines per se for folks with depression, but I am against the over-prescribing of meds for those who might not actually need them, and can start feeling better through talk therapy alone. But I worked in a psych ward at a VA hospital, and I know that some of the guys wouldn't have made it through their rehab without the help of anti-depressants or other meds to treat their condition. There is no "one size fits all solution" to any problem a person might have. We need a universal health care system in the US that will provide both talk therapies and meds when folks need them and without putting people into bankruptcy trying to pay for them!
Oh, my best friend, who is Danish says the same. "He needed a drug to save his life" blah blah. He also has a loving and supportive family.
And yet there IS NO SUCH THING AS A "CHEMICAL IMBALANCE". It was just an advertising scam, and so say the people who invented it. https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/29/do-you-still-believe-in-the-chemical-imbalance-theory-of-mental-illness/
And so how do we square this circle?
Well, some things we can pin down. You were unhappy, for one. Serotonin made you happier, for another. (Hardly a surprise to any clubbers from the 90s).
Presumably, there was one or several causes for your unhappiness. Also presumably, you never saw a psychologist to dig deep to find that - you were happy with the band-aid of the chemical stimulant, it ticked your boxes, and you felt better. Sure, it didn't CURE you, but at least you're still alive.
Now, you would be a remarkable person indeed if you'd never had previous experiences that made you unhappy, and you don't like thinking of them. The same goes for my Danish friend.
I'm not opposed, and neither is the critical scientist above, to short-term remedies as interventions. But when they become life-long, there starts to be a problem. Your brain adapts, you see. And that is something you REALLY don't want to happen. Addictions are nasty, whether the drugs are illegal or legal. But you're OK with that, it seems.
What stuns me is that you ignore the vast quantity of data that overwhelmingly points to these dangerous drugs being misusued, and countless millions severely harmed by them. Are YOU the only person that matters? I don't believe you think that - although the drugs themselves do tend to boost the ego, despite the best efforts of the underlying person. They reduce empathy - and empathy is usually, but not always, where the psychological trouble began.
I would strongly advise to find a therapist who is able to unpick your life BEFORE you started on the drug treatment, although in all truth the changes from long-term addiction will always leave their imprint.
If you are at all like my friend, you won't even have read this far, and all you will be seeing is bright red rage.
It CANNOT be your family.
It CANNOT be your friends.
It MUST be your brain.
But brains don't work like that, simple as.
But I'm not going to convince you, ever. :shrugs:
Sorry we had this disagreement.
Druggies are impossible to argue with, same as alcoholics. To compare antidepressants with insulin is preposterous. Like comparing nicotine with marijuana.
The main question is - does the drug alter your mind? Does it affect (correct/heal in equivocal manipulative language) your personality? If yes, you should recognize you're under the influence, you're not yourself, you're DUI, DWI (replace the D with appropriate action).
Everybody suffers from some mental conditions at one point or another, or constantly to a certain degree. EVERYBODY. The fact some are weaker than others is just that - they are weaker mentally. But then it's true about physical characteristics. Only imbeciles start pumping themselves with steroids to try to match somebody who naturally is stronger. The normies take their condition and adapt it to their lives.
Anyway, I don't mean to fix or correct anybody. Just saying my piece.
Actually, nicotine and MJ do have similar psychotropic effects, albeit one is considerably weaker.
Did you when Raleigh met the Amerindians, the locals had two variants? One, tobacco rusticus, had a stronger psychedelic effect, and low addictiveness. the other, far less commonly smoked for obvious reasons, had lower psychedelic effect but considerably higher addictiveness?
Take one guess which one the English ruling classes brought back for sale.
But a simple test of this is to grab a vape, and high - 18 or 24+ strength liquid, and take some really big lungfuls. You'll be tripping, and not in a nice way.
ALL drugs affect personality, as your personality also includes your physical state.
"Everybody suffers from some mental conditions at one point or another, or constantly to a certain degree. EVERYBODY."
Yes.
"The fact some are weaker than others is just that - they are weaker mentally."
Define "weaker"? Some may be more vulnerable to some experiences, and yet will brush other experiences of with a shrug, that would destroy a person barely affected by the former. People can have weak moments, when something they would normally shrug off hurts them greatly. And vice versa.
Everyone can be helped through those experiences, so they become integrated, dealt with, and the individual becomes stronger.
An alcoholic from childhood abuse may be the bravest person in a crowd in certain situations.
It really doesn't help to see some as 'weaker', and some as 'stronger'. those are far too rigid definitions. Especially where chemicals are concerned.
Physically, it may be simpler, but even there, in moments of stress I've seen physically weak people do extraordinary things, and physically strong people back off and hide.
Human beings are extraordinarily complex creatures, not to be shoved into boxes.
Everyone would benefit from meditation, just as they would daily physical exercises. A muscle trained is a stronger muscle.
Drugs can be a useful tool in many psychological areas, microdosing shrooms has shown to reduce depression in EVERYONE, with little to no side-effects.
As Terrance McKenna argued, we evolved alongside psychedelic drugs, they are a part of our heritage. We may not even be sane without them. Needless to say, misuse can push us in the opposite direction too.
"nicotine and MJ do have similar psychotropic effects" - have you heard of a cop writing a ticket to somebody for having smoked too many cigarettes?
Of course nicotine has an effect. It's stimulating, clarifying, whatever. But it doesn't impair you or change your personality. You still are who you are.
"Define "weaker"" - in terms of how people overcome those moments.
And once again - I do not slight people for being weak, everyone is at some points to some degree. I am though for people to be honest about it and not make excuses for submitting to drugs and claiming it's normal. It's not. If you can't handle yourself without drugs or alcohol - fine, but admit it. That's all.
I can assure you that tobacco changes your personality. It may not impair certain abilities - such as driving - as much as say LSD, or whiskey, nonetheless a smoker - ie, an addict - has a marked change in personality from the drug.
The same is also true of coffee, and to a lesser extent tea. There are some people who should not be behind a wheel after drinking coffee - or on withdrawal from coffee.
The only difference really is that these are 'socially acceptable' drugs, not that they do not have significant changes to mood and behaviour.
In places where pot has been socially acceptable also for generations, people would look at you for being weird for claiming it was dangerous, or harmful, in moderate doses. Ever talked to a hardcore Muslim about alcohol, and heard how deranged they are about even one mouthful of beer? Well, that's how it'd comes across in those societies.
I don't think societies should be limiting people's choices, certainly not through coercion and threats of extreme violence, such as "Imprisonment"; at the same time, I agree that individuals must also take the full consequences of their actions, and not try to claim "The drug made me do it". No, that's BS. I've been drunk many, many times, but I've never even remotely tried to rape someone. That's not the alcohol, that's YOU, buddy.
But this distinction between 'drugs', and 'drug-free' is largely false. Historically, it comes down to whether the item could be controlled and taxed by and for elites. When you look at it biochemically, you find it gets a great deal more complicated. Look up the effects of processed sugar on the nervous system, fx. If you think that's funny, try giving up ALL products with sugar in for 3 months. You'll find all the symptoms of drug addiction as you go through that, if you know what they are.
"Just one little bit won't hurt..." - just as any old heroin addict who can't quit.
Obviously, these 'natural' - or more natural - drugs are not in the same league as the manufactured utterly synthetics of Big Harma. Opium is a millionth less harmful and addictive than the Big Harma synthetic opioids. Even so, opium destroyed an entire civilisation under British gunboats to force entry.
People have been killed due to caffeine withdrawal. And nicotine withdrawal. Especially nicotine withdrawal.
Ultimately, "You are what you eat", or more generally, imbibe. It ALL affects your mood, behaviour, psychology, consciousness. I cut out meat for two years in my late 20s - I was a different person in important respects.
What I'm getting at here, badly, and longwindedly, is that generally the distinction of "drugs" is entirely synthetic itself. It is socially subjective - to some extent.
Every single person on this planet, is addicted to SOMETHING. Be it meat, sugar, salt, heroin, dope, alcohol, tobacco, or their phones (But that's another topic).
Pointing fingers of superiority at others is ignoring our own problems, which we only admit in secret to ourselves in the dead of night.
We're all addicts. Every single one of us. Addiction is part of the Human Experience.
I'm cool with that, and maybe you are too.
But I'd like the pill-pushing "psychiatrists" to simply call themselves the more honest "Dealers".