Immigration policies hurt the poor and the working poor the most. If you defend mass immigration and criticize Capitalism, or defend Capitalism and criticize immigration you are a hypocrite.
immigration policies affect people who are trying to flee wars, often helped along by the US, the most. I would rather be a hypocrite in this case than inhuman.
Immigration has always been a political football, along with the more recent Wokeness political football. Although I would agree Immigration issues are important, if I had to rank the problems plaguing the US right now, I would say unchecked Militarism, gross Inequality and a lack of a Representative Democracy along with growing fascism, rank far higher than the issues of Immigration or Wokeness.
But in parallel with Caitlin's post today, corporate Media will push the Immigration and Wokeness issues over the elephants in the room: Trillions of dollars wasted on Wars sponsored by the Oligarchs, including genocide, and an unchecked Military Industrial Complex (including Boeing), and the evisceration of the Middle Class as America descends into gross inequality of the haves and have nots, not seen since America's gilded robber baron era of the 1920s.
Liberals have a boner for the word "nuanced", like, when Bill Clinton perjures himself or HRC violates the Espionage Act, that just means that we need to take a *nuanced* reading of the statute to excuse them.
So let me take a nuanced view: when a PMC yuppie hears the words "more immigrants", those words mean "Cheaper au pairs and ethnic restaurants! O Goodies!" When a working class person hears the words "more immigrants" he thinks fewer jobs, more competition for housing, longer lines for services.
I am generally *for* immigration, but let's not pretend that immigration is cost-free, or that these costs are borne equally by everyone.
Yes it falls into the same category as “controversial”. It would deserve pride of place in the badly needed and enlarging niche - the “Weasel’s Dictionary” . Ambrose Bierce has already taken the Devil’s Dictionary?
Rob Henderson cites a study indicating that "educated people are more likely to express prejudice toward immigrants who are described as highly educated, relative to less educated, and are therefore seen as job competitors." I always thought the idea that conservatives didn't like immigrants because they viewed them as job competition was a liberal canard, but apparently not, or at least not entirely: https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-grand-canyon-sized-chasm-between
Not only that, permitting the importation of a new underclass, mass immigration provides the regime with fresh opportunities to engineer solutions to social problems and ethnic conflicts. In this way, immigration strengthens and perpetuates liberalism’s moral legitimacy. At the expense of everyone else.
Some truth to that. Somewhat like how prisoners have remarked that the prison guards encourage racial divisions as that makes the inmates easier to control.
El. Who’s everyone else? The feckless Libertarians that want to control everyone who is not a comfortable, complacent, cowardly yuppie? Susan and Mary are right. And I say immigration will dilute the current empire infected zeitgeist we currently slog along in.
What a dumb statement. I wouldn’t put anybody in any gulag and I’ve never given you any reason to think I would. Pull your head out and come into the light.
Americans are described as “naive” about their ME foreign policy. Not amoral, not fraudulent. Not wantonly untrustworthy. Just naive in the way you are when you have CIA spies in every country, spy on all your own citizens and allies and maintain 800 military bases in 70 countries.
You are saying that people who live in an empire that has caused poverty and governmental breakdown in many other nations to enrich the rich and afford some trickle down to the middle class, are entitled to, and should ,slam shut the borders to the refugees from our own county's policies. Lucky for us that our own ancestors didn't face that attitude, tho they usually faced discrimination after being let in., Many of those south of the border have ancestors here much farther back than most of us privileged honkies, who are entitled to live here because of all that hard work we did to earn the privilege, in being born here. I also think your thesis is false. Perhaps immigration causes some job loss, but most immigrants are doing shit jobs Americans don't want. Much job loss comes from outsourcing, and from automation.
Then I’ll happily be a hypocrite. It’s capitalism 1st and last that hurts the poor, especially the working poor. In fact it creates them, then hurts them. And immigration scares the shit out of capitalists. Especially corporate capitalists. So more power to them.
Exactly—because workers won’t allow them into their unions so they are left to the mercy of the bosses. If workers weren’t so stupid, they’d ORGANIZE these new comers.
These newcomers often cant even get a work permit - you are correct about the organizing, but there's more to it than just that. When undocumented people show up at the workplace, there is an immediate decision split that offers a choice of two options: 1) help these people through organizing or 2) exclude these people through organizing (or ICE). Sadly the anxiety we live in over job security leads most often to the latter, and any rare occasion anyone takes the first option leads to people pooping themselves that "communism" has taken hold.
Yep. That’s why they’re called sheep. And even sheep have more courage than most cable watching, cell phone sucking, gas hog driving “workers”, who mostly won’t take the jobs the immigrants do but will fight like fascists to keep the immigrants from taking those jobs. Immigrants are a great addition to the gene pool now dominated by ignorant, lazy, militant, xenophobic white people who will do anything to protect their privileges but nothing to defend human rights.
Iirc, the libertarian/free market version of this goes something like if there is to be free flow of capital there also needs to be free flow of labor.
I would add that the free market "version" above is supposed to be the most efficient way to run real free market ecomomies, where supply can meet demand (including labor). When labor is restricted but capital isn't, it's not a real free market. Also, I'm making no defense of that approach, just saying that capitalists who don't want free flow of labor are not true free market advocates (thus, as you say, mostly hypocrites).
Except when it can juice productivity without increasing wages. Continually throwing cheap labor into the machine definitely helps this through depressing all the wages and raising worker anxiety, but this isn't necessarily also an increase in population.
Immigration policies hurt the poor and the working poor the most. If you defend mass immigration and criticize Capitalism, or defend Capitalism and criticize immigration you are a hypocrite.
immigration policies affect people who are trying to flee wars, often helped along by the US, the most. I would rather be a hypocrite in this case than inhuman.
Immigration has always been a political football, along with the more recent Wokeness political football. Although I would agree Immigration issues are important, if I had to rank the problems plaguing the US right now, I would say unchecked Militarism, gross Inequality and a lack of a Representative Democracy along with growing fascism, rank far higher than the issues of Immigration or Wokeness.
But in parallel with Caitlin's post today, corporate Media will push the Immigration and Wokeness issues over the elephants in the room: Trillions of dollars wasted on Wars sponsored by the Oligarchs, including genocide, and an unchecked Military Industrial Complex (including Boeing), and the evisceration of the Middle Class as America descends into gross inequality of the haves and have nots, not seen since America's gilded robber baron era of the 1920s.
Liberals have a boner for the word "nuanced", like, when Bill Clinton perjures himself or HRC violates the Espionage Act, that just means that we need to take a *nuanced* reading of the statute to excuse them.
So let me take a nuanced view: when a PMC yuppie hears the words "more immigrants", those words mean "Cheaper au pairs and ethnic restaurants! O Goodies!" When a working class person hears the words "more immigrants" he thinks fewer jobs, more competition for housing, longer lines for services.
I am generally *for* immigration, but let's not pretend that immigration is cost-free, or that these costs are borne equally by everyone.
Yes it falls into the same category as “controversial”. It would deserve pride of place in the badly needed and enlarging niche - the “Weasel’s Dictionary” . Ambrose Bierce has already taken the Devil’s Dictionary?
Rob Henderson cites a study indicating that "educated people are more likely to express prejudice toward immigrants who are described as highly educated, relative to less educated, and are therefore seen as job competitors." I always thought the idea that conservatives didn't like immigrants because they viewed them as job competition was a liberal canard, but apparently not, or at least not entirely: https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-grand-canyon-sized-chasm-between
Not only that, permitting the importation of a new underclass, mass immigration provides the regime with fresh opportunities to engineer solutions to social problems and ethnic conflicts. In this way, immigration strengthens and perpetuates liberalism’s moral legitimacy. At the expense of everyone else.
Some truth to that. Somewhat like how prisoners have remarked that the prison guards encourage racial divisions as that makes the inmates easier to control.
El. Who’s everyone else? The feckless Libertarians that want to control everyone who is not a comfortable, complacent, cowardly yuppie? Susan and Mary are right. And I say immigration will dilute the current empire infected zeitgeist we currently slog along in.
Proletariat, deplorables—the ones you'd like to put in gulag.
What a dumb statement. I wouldn’t put anybody in any gulag and I’ve never given you any reason to think I would. Pull your head out and come into the light.
I just saw another one
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/24/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine/?commentID=82563aa6-58e2-4603-a774-1fe5a486b880
Americans are described as “naive” about their ME foreign policy. Not amoral, not fraudulent. Not wantonly untrustworthy. Just naive in the way you are when you have CIA spies in every country, spy on all your own citizens and allies and maintain 800 military bases in 70 countries.
More nuanced than that, LOL 😂😆
You are saying that people who live in an empire that has caused poverty and governmental breakdown in many other nations to enrich the rich and afford some trickle down to the middle class, are entitled to, and should ,slam shut the borders to the refugees from our own county's policies. Lucky for us that our own ancestors didn't face that attitude, tho they usually faced discrimination after being let in., Many of those south of the border have ancestors here much farther back than most of us privileged honkies, who are entitled to live here because of all that hard work we did to earn the privilege, in being born here. I also think your thesis is false. Perhaps immigration causes some job loss, but most immigrants are doing shit jobs Americans don't want. Much job loss comes from outsourcing, and from automation.
Then I’ll happily be a hypocrite. It’s capitalism 1st and last that hurts the poor, especially the working poor. In fact it creates them, then hurts them. And immigration scares the shit out of capitalists. Especially corporate capitalists. So more power to them.
Real capitalists love immigration because it enables that labor exploitation.
Exactly—because workers won’t allow them into their unions so they are left to the mercy of the bosses. If workers weren’t so stupid, they’d ORGANIZE these new comers.
These newcomers often cant even get a work permit - you are correct about the organizing, but there's more to it than just that. When undocumented people show up at the workplace, there is an immediate decision split that offers a choice of two options: 1) help these people through organizing or 2) exclude these people through organizing (or ICE). Sadly the anxiety we live in over job security leads most often to the latter, and any rare occasion anyone takes the first option leads to people pooping themselves that "communism" has taken hold.
Yep. That’s why they’re called sheep. And even sheep have more courage than most cable watching, cell phone sucking, gas hog driving “workers”, who mostly won’t take the jobs the immigrants do but will fight like fascists to keep the immigrants from taking those jobs. Immigrants are a great addition to the gene pool now dominated by ignorant, lazy, militant, xenophobic white people who will do anything to protect their privileges but nothing to defend human rights.
Iirc, the libertarian/free market version of this goes something like if there is to be free flow of capital there also needs to be free flow of labor.
Capitalism in any form, DEMANDS constant increase in population.
I would add that the free market "version" above is supposed to be the most efficient way to run real free market ecomomies, where supply can meet demand (including labor). When labor is restricted but capital isn't, it's not a real free market. Also, I'm making no defense of that approach, just saying that capitalists who don't want free flow of labor are not true free market advocates (thus, as you say, mostly hypocrites).
Except when it can juice productivity without increasing wages. Continually throwing cheap labor into the machine definitely helps this through depressing all the wages and raising worker anxiety, but this isn't necessarily also an increase in population.