You may be right. But there is also a nihilistic part of me wondering if life is just some kind of joke upon us all ... Meanwhile, how many children will the Israeli IDF Nazis massacre today with American supplied bombs?
I understand your position and feelings. I have not concluded that yet, and I don't think it's because I'm just stupid or deluded. I think there are some reasons to keep hoping. ps: Just because there is suffering and clear injustice, does not prove more cannot exist - or consciousness is more than what some will insist it must be. Frederic Myer's work first comes to my mind - and he did good work. Hodgson's and William James' work with Mrs. Piper. More contemporary is the work of cardiologist Pim von Lommel and scientist Sam Parnia.
One fundamental belief most spiritual traditions maintain - is the idea of a soul. Inviolate and non-perishable. That is, the body itself is just a vehicle for the soul. Materialism has yet to prove the soul does not exist. Consciousness remains a mystery to science and human philosophy. Science has not proven materialism (at all). Ontology regarding consciousness remains an open question.
Meaning for me (right now) is a story of the self-realization of the unconscious, and to experience myself as a whole. Symbolism and myth express the importance of the individual and "expresses life more precisely than does science." While science deals with averages and universal statistics, myth (and stories) provide the needed subjectivity necessary for each of us as an individual to bring meaning to our life. Currently, I don't believe reality or consciousness is some kind of mechanical (strictly materialistic) accident, nor do I believe one's individuality is something that is meant to be set aside. But I could be wrong.
Gypsy—it’s better than good enough. It’s earth saving. I did gardens for rich Yuppies with more dollars than sense and got all my families off pesticides and nitrates and all the rest of the poisons people think they need to use to look “to the manor born”.
And, of course, everything IS permitted. That’s the problem. Humans can’t stand that much responsibility so we resort to gods and satans to hide behind. But we’re the creators, just as much as any of our gods are.
I disagree. The responsibility dodging many resort to is paganism. That is, of course, buck passing right there with those who hide behind, "the devil made me do it" moral bankruptcy.
Everything is, not just "permitted", but the celebrated modus vivendi of the morally bankrupt, who's REAL RELIGION is Social Darwinism, whether they ever looked up the definition of that Socially Destructive Ideology or not. Those functional Social Darwinists WORSHIP THEMSELVES.
That excludes billions of 🕊️ humans who embrace ethical behavior as sine qua non for a viable biosphere. These people of good will, whether they are monotheists or not, accept our responsibility to be good stewards of Earth. They are part of the ☝🏻 solution.
We humans did not create squat. Pretending we are "creators" is hubris even more inexcusable than paganism. The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that life in this Universe, along with the very precise physical constants (thousands of places to the right of the decimal point, without which molecules would NOT be able to form from chemical reactions, and even the existence of gravity would not be possible), are deliberate acts of creation by a super intelligent entity. This Super Intelligent Designer ET that created the Universe, by the current concensus of the reality based scientific community that, "there was NO MATTER before the Big Bang" (i.e. not given to evidence free multiverse atheist arm waving speculation), HAS to exist outside of time and space.
I see no evidence that the Creator passed the "creator" baton onto us. Pretending the incredible complexity and diversity of life forms in our biosphere, never mind the vast Universe out there, resulted from random undirected processes when we cannot make a single viable cell in the lab, despite our advanced scientific lab tools and crisper DNA human Intelligent Design sophisticated methods, is irrational as well as unscientific. Talk to me about our "creator" abilities when scientists can intelligently design a viable, self reproducing bacterial organism in the lab from biochemical scratch. Until then, making the belief in metaphysics your whipping boy displays evidence of one or both of the following difficulties:
If you take responsiblity for your actions to the point that you continuously behave towards others as you would have them behave towards you, you are part of the solution. However, casting aspersions on people who honestly worship the Creator of this life friendly Universe, because there are a lot of hypocrites out there sporting the goody two shoes "Religious" label, is throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
Yes it does. However, I don't think the case is entirely closed yet on the issue - at least in my own mind. There remain a number of significant open ontological questions regarding the nature of our existence, especially consciousness. The mystery remains.
You may be right. But there is also a nihilistic part of me wondering if life is just some kind of joke upon us all ... Meanwhile, how many children will the Israeli IDF Nazis massacre today with American supplied bombs?
And yet, humankind continues to ponder the “meaning of life”, Jamenta.
What was the meaning for newborns left to die in their incubators?
It truly makes one wonder if there is indeed any “meaning”.
There is NO meaning to life. I have been talking and pondering this question for years. You get born, work hard, get ill and get dead!
Then what's the point? Specifically the question to you, since you've come to those conclusions - why not take a shortcut?
Good point.
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-170422152855.jpeg
I understand your position and feelings. I have not concluded that yet, and I don't think it's because I'm just stupid or deluded. I think there are some reasons to keep hoping. ps: Just because there is suffering and clear injustice, does not prove more cannot exist - or consciousness is more than what some will insist it must be. Frederic Myer's work first comes to my mind - and he did good work. Hodgson's and William James' work with Mrs. Piper. More contemporary is the work of cardiologist Pim von Lommel and scientist Sam Parnia.
One fundamental belief most spiritual traditions maintain - is the idea of a soul. Inviolate and non-perishable. That is, the body itself is just a vehicle for the soul. Materialism has yet to prove the soul does not exist. Consciousness remains a mystery to science and human philosophy. Science has not proven materialism (at all). Ontology regarding consciousness remains an open question.
I have always considered that life’s meaning is to leave the world a better place than if you hadn’t existed.
My career consisted of creating beauty outdoors where there was formerly none. And I’ve literally planted thousands of trees in my lifetime.
Not sure if that’s good enough though, compared to my MD brother, whose business was saving lives.
Meaning for me (right now) is a story of the self-realization of the unconscious, and to experience myself as a whole. Symbolism and myth express the importance of the individual and "expresses life more precisely than does science." While science deals with averages and universal statistics, myth (and stories) provide the needed subjectivity necessary for each of us as an individual to bring meaning to our life. Currently, I don't believe reality or consciousness is some kind of mechanical (strictly materialistic) accident, nor do I believe one's individuality is something that is meant to be set aside. But I could be wrong.
You aren't wrong.
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-200422175637.png
BUT, there are way too many Ivory Tower Intellimorons in Academia who prefer their myth to irrefutable probability math:
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-260322171228.png
I love your views, Jamenta
Gypsy—it’s better than good enough. It’s earth saving. I did gardens for rich Yuppies with more dollars than sense and got all my families off pesticides and nitrates and all the rest of the poisons people think they need to use to look “to the manor born”.
Yep Jenny, “Life’s a bitch and then you die!”
I respectfully disagree.
"if God doesn't exist, then everything is permitted" -- Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-170422140736-715978.jpeg
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-170422160812-737823.png
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-031222123720.jpeg
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-170422160904-749649.jpeg
And, of course, everything IS permitted. That’s the problem. Humans can’t stand that much responsibility so we resort to gods and satans to hide behind. But we’re the creators, just as much as any of our gods are.
I disagree. The responsibility dodging many resort to is paganism. That is, of course, buck passing right there with those who hide behind, "the devil made me do it" moral bankruptcy.
Everything is, not just "permitted", but the celebrated modus vivendi of the morally bankrupt, who's REAL RELIGION is Social Darwinism, whether they ever looked up the definition of that Socially Destructive Ideology or not. Those functional Social Darwinists WORSHIP THEMSELVES.
That excludes billions of 🕊️ humans who embrace ethical behavior as sine qua non for a viable biosphere. These people of good will, whether they are monotheists or not, accept our responsibility to be good stewards of Earth. They are part of the ☝🏻 solution.
We humans did not create squat. Pretending we are "creators" is hubris even more inexcusable than paganism. The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that life in this Universe, along with the very precise physical constants (thousands of places to the right of the decimal point, without which molecules would NOT be able to form from chemical reactions, and even the existence of gravity would not be possible), are deliberate acts of creation by a super intelligent entity. This Super Intelligent Designer ET that created the Universe, by the current concensus of the reality based scientific community that, "there was NO MATTER before the Big Bang" (i.e. not given to evidence free multiverse atheist arm waving speculation), HAS to exist outside of time and space.
I see no evidence that the Creator passed the "creator" baton onto us. Pretending the incredible complexity and diversity of life forms in our biosphere, never mind the vast Universe out there, resulted from random undirected processes when we cannot make a single viable cell in the lab, despite our advanced scientific lab tools and crisper DNA human Intelligent Design sophisticated methods, is irrational as well as unscientific. Talk to me about our "creator" abilities when scientists can intelligently design a viable, self reproducing bacterial organism in the lab from biochemical scratch. Until then, making the belief in metaphysics your whipping boy displays evidence of one or both of the following difficulties:
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-270522171702-1272844.png
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-270522171700-12682005.png
If you take responsiblity for your actions to the point that you continuously behave towards others as you would have them behave towards you, you are part of the solution. However, casting aspersions on people who honestly worship the Creator of this life friendly Universe, because there are a lot of hypocrites out there sporting the goody two shoes "Religious" label, is throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-120422142412.jpeg
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-210223111825.jpeg
Yes it does. However, I don't think the case is entirely closed yet on the issue - at least in my own mind. There remain a number of significant open ontological questions regarding the nature of our existence, especially consciousness. The mystery remains.