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Michael's avatar

Unfortunately, propaganda & mass social media moves more and more people away from this idea. For many, their very identity is defined by national politics and this is a sad reality.

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Philip Mollica's avatar

Without question...

I can count myself among those who identified with it all as an "American Citizen" until I realized that I don't need to do so.

These people and institutions do not represent me, and I hold no responsibility for what they are creating, only for what I am creating in my own life.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

I grew up during Viet Nam so I learned that pretty early.

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Philip Mollica's avatar

So did I but I did not escape that indoctrination. I bought in lock, stock and barrel.

And a lifetime of anger over what it did to my brother being Marine infantry in Vietnam.

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bill wolfe's avatar

The sad reality is that good people have abandoned "national politics" and that has created. a vacuum that will enable the cultural and political fascists to consolidate power in a fascists government.

People need to get off their keyboard and out of their private gardens and out in the street.

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Philip Mollica's avatar

Regarding "the cultural and political fascists to consolidate power in a fascists government...,'' has this not already occurred?

In fact, has this not ALWAYS been the case since the inception of our government?

I would argue that it has.

We are not going to stop this or change it by opposing it. It's already all been leveraged. Any attempt to oppose it, regardless of intention or action is corrupted by bad actors who will turn "peaceful" protests into riots. Will turn "concerned citizens" into criminals.

If you want to do this, then let's just cut to the chase and stop paying taxes. But we DON'T do that out of fear of consequences. And in fact, I would say that getting "out in the street" actually serves the system's interest with our participation in the illusion of controlled opposition - not particularly different than the two-party system. It makes it "appear" that we have a say, that there is a choice, that we can change it through opposition. In reality, there is nothing that is going to change through these methods.

I would say that the only thing that will change it is to stop participating... stop making it and them important. And start making important each and every individual. That starts at home. That starts in our community.

I have great compassion for us, and I acknowledge our frustration. And given my druthers, I would smash the system to bits. But this is not the way. It's leveraged and it plays right into it. There MUST be another way.

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bill wolfe's avatar

If you really believe local and individual solitons are the way, why would billionaires and corporations act collectively (as a class) and structurally and on national and global scales and institutions?

They know how to exercise power. Most people don't.

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Philip Mollica's avatar

I understand what you're getting at, and if I thought that logic and reason was all there was to it, I would definitely agree with you. It makes perfect sense.

However, for my purposes, I also am incorporating other factors that you likely are not. One is Consciousness as a energy, and the other is the power of self-aware individuals to bring about change by creating change within themselves -- in essence, creating their own reality which then burgeons into the mass expression.

Class war, so to speak, is the old way. Pushing energy is the old way. There is a new age upon us based in the importance and power of the individual.

And yet, it isn't individualism or hedonism or nihilism in the old sense of those concepts.

It actually is based on a cooperative, collaborative model which is not dependent on bringing all groups to the table. It circumvents reason and logic and moves into the area of trust.

I understand that it may sound laughable or that's what got us into this mess in the first place. But I assure you, we are not in Kansas anymore. There are other factors at play that are different than anything mankind has encountered in the past.

I'm not trying to convince you. Only let you know where I'm coming from when what I am suggesting sounds like lunacy. There is more going on now than meets the eye.

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bill wolfe's avatar

The tactics go to an analysis of the problem.

Your tax revolt (Thoreau) targets government as the source of the problem and sees power as coming from individuals acting based on market exchange power.

I see people as social animals and citizens and collective action the solution to attacking Corporate power via democratically leveraging government power.

Class based analysis/organizing and collective democratic power are the way.

Hopelessness and individualism/identity/hedonism/private market consumers are no way.

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Philip Mollica's avatar

Since everything is interconnected it seems that all of the above will come into play since it will require a collaboration of forces and effects within all systems.

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Carolyn L Zaremba's avatar

People need to stop supporting nationalism, full stop. We live in a global society. Nationalism divides people, results in wars, and cannot solve global problems like climate change and pandemics.

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Aug 8, 2023
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bill wolfe's avatar

What's that famous quote: "First the came for the .....

You won't be enjoying your private garden for very long.

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