Jenny: yes, partly it is poverty. Black people tend to have a more difficult time finding work (because of racist attitudes) and are, therefore, more likely to be poor.
The elephant in the room is not "racism" or "poverty", those are definitely factors. That elephant is EDUCATION.
When a person graduates from high school and cannot read, cannot do basic math and cannot write legibly, how does this prepare any child for the job market? I do not care if you are black, white, yellow, red or some mixture of these; the person who is deficient in these areas is not going to get a "good" job, they cannot even qualify for ANY job. That is not "racism".
Using Chicago, LA and NYC as examples, these cities spend more per student than almost any other large metro area in the country. This is a fact. They also have some of the lowest graduation rates and test scores in the nation, period. When children excel in school, this removes the Primary roadblock to success in later life, regardless of race or any other factor. The Public, Federally controlled and financed education system in the USA has failed us all, and failed miserably.
I had a friend in high school who had a Black father and an Asian mother. He was not educationally deficient in any way, his parents made sure that he was prepared for the world. He also had structure and discipline in the home. He was one of the brightest people in the class of 1400 people. We respected each other and there was never a thought given as to the color of our skin. Educational excellence and self discipline are the keys to success later in life.
It is way more complicated than your presentation. Maybe look in WHY some people do not get through school. There are people of every skin colour and ethnicity that are in this situation. What is it about our system that allows this to happen?
Well, right off the bat I'd say one big problem with our system is that it is full of people like you who think it is the up to the system to do the job of parenting. Talk about guaranteed failure, unless you are measuring success in terms of your sinecure.
But this thread started as an exploration of how it is we Americans are funding a blatant, in your face, full-on, undeniable, flat-out genocide. Someone, I think it was you, said it was because we were exporting our treatment of blacks to brown foreigners, and you used the example of police killings of blacks to make your point. I happened to think this is a very important question: yes, how the fuck am I and my country dropping bombs on little kids in their homes, in their neighborhoods, in their cities on a daily basis. How is it my country is actually doing this? This is the epitome of evil and I want to know HOW IS THIS HAPPENING? Who is it making me complicit in genocide?
So I refuted your dopey oh-so-American response: it's, um, systemic racism and stuff, because I know that that is the answer of an ignorant midwit and will prevent us from actually finding an actual answer to this crucially important question: WHY IS MY COUNTRY DROPPING BOMBS ON LITTLE KIDS?
But typical of the ignorant midwits, so smug in their stupidity, so lacking in character and intellectual integrity, rather than acknowledge that, perhaps, you had been wrong to blame the genocide in Gaza on whiteness, you shifted the conversation to why our schools are such expensive failures.
I'm not going to let you do that. I want you to acknowledge that blaming the genocide in Gaza on white racism was wrong. Then I want you to try again:
HOW IS IT OUR COUNTRY IS MASS MURDERING INNOCENT LITTLE KIDS?
I don't know how old you are or if you remember the Vietnam war years? I do and the major factors that turned Americans against that war were twofold: First, the nightly news showing the horrors of that war, dead children, the blood and guts, up close and personal, in full color and delivering it to TV screens. Secondly, the endless footage of American soldiers being carried off the battlefields on stretchers and in body bags.
Where is the media in Gaza? Why are they not there on the front lines? I think we can all agree that there are people who do not want these images broadcast.
I would say the media is hiding the atrocities because, by-and-large, the media supports the genocide. It's for the same reason Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said explained the ignorance in the West of the atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks when they seized power in Russia in 1917--how they razed thousands of churches but left the synagogues intact and how they went on to genocide 66 million Russian Christians: it proved the world's media was in the hands of the perpetrators.
Susan T, Please! This entire conversation is a simplification of a very complex issue. It is a myriad of factors "that allows this to happen". We are discussing one one of three factors.
All I am saying is that an UNEDUCATED and UNDISCIPLINED Child is a Child that is set up for almost inevitable failure. I am pointing out that the lack of basic education and discipline has a far greater influence on outcomes than is given credit.
If it were simply a fact of "cubic dollars spent", the USA would have some of the most educated and successful people on earth.
If it is "Poverty" alone, then how do so many once poor people excel?
If it was "Racism" alone, then how does one explain the POC's many success stories (particularly among Asian populations)?
These factors (racism and poverty) do come into play, but these are not the exclusive or even predominant causes. These two factors are also NOT exclusive to the USA.
Show me an educated, motivated and self disciplined individual and I can assure you that their rate of success will be greater that that of the un-discipline, un-motivated and un-educated individual, regardless of other factors.
"What is it about our system that allows this to happen?" I think you have asked a good question here, perhaps we should spend more time examining the root causes HONESTLY. So far, the public educational system administrations in the USA have failed to do this. Instead, they dance around the issues because they are afraid that they will step on toes, especially the toes of the politicians who keep the Taxpayer Dollars flowing into their coffers.
Then I guess the patriarchy does not really exist and women are not oppressed because some women "make it" even in terms of patriarchal thinking, so that must mean women are deficient. Or something. It certainly couldn't be anything to do with our living in a white male, preferably rich, dominated world. Could it???
Who said that women were "deficient". That is your claim, not mine. We have a distracted, dumbed down and fractured society that has failed to ask their elected leaders the HARD question of "Why are We supporting and paying for the bombing of innocent civilians anywhere in the world" and failed to hold them accountable for their barbaric actions.
Yes, blacks are such helpless children that their own behavior has no effect at all in our adult world. We superior whites are so far above blacks that our "attitudes" alone determine the life outcomes of that entire population
Jenny, the statistics are out there on the internet (if you are interested). You do have to make the effort to look them up though.
>>"I think this is more about poverty."
Jenny, this is why it would behoove you to learn about CRT - it is not just ONE factor. It is multiple factors and requires an understanding of 'INTERSECTIONALITY' too.
**Intersectionality: is a sociological analytical framework for understanding how groups' and individuals' social and political identities result in unique combinations of discrimination and privilege. Examples of these factors include gender, caste, sex, race, ethnicity, class, sexuality, religion, disability, height, age, and weight. The term intersectionality was coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw in 1989. She describes how interlocking systems of power affect those who are most marginalized in society. Activists and academics use the framework to promote social and political egalitarianism.
** CRT: CRT is also used in sociology to explain social, political, and legal structures and power distribution as through a "lens" focusing on the concept of race, and experiences of racism. For example, the CRT conceptual framework examines racial bias in laws and legal institutions, such as highly disparate rates of incarceration among racial groups in the United States.
Maybe one should find the figures of how many black people are incarcerated as opposed to whites?
On top of this, from what I understand, many blacks have to use a Public Defender and many cannot pay bail so they sit in Jail waiting for a PD.
I think this is more about poverty.
Jenny: yes, partly it is poverty. Black people tend to have a more difficult time finding work (because of racist attitudes) and are, therefore, more likely to be poor.
Wow. You sound like the Governor of New York that thinks black kids don’t know what a computer is.
what????
The elephant in the room is not "racism" or "poverty", those are definitely factors. That elephant is EDUCATION.
When a person graduates from high school and cannot read, cannot do basic math and cannot write legibly, how does this prepare any child for the job market? I do not care if you are black, white, yellow, red or some mixture of these; the person who is deficient in these areas is not going to get a "good" job, they cannot even qualify for ANY job. That is not "racism".
Using Chicago, LA and NYC as examples, these cities spend more per student than almost any other large metro area in the country. This is a fact. They also have some of the lowest graduation rates and test scores in the nation, period. When children excel in school, this removes the Primary roadblock to success in later life, regardless of race or any other factor. The Public, Federally controlled and financed education system in the USA has failed us all, and failed miserably.
I had a friend in high school who had a Black father and an Asian mother. He was not educationally deficient in any way, his parents made sure that he was prepared for the world. He also had structure and discipline in the home. He was one of the brightest people in the class of 1400 people. We respected each other and there was never a thought given as to the color of our skin. Educational excellence and self discipline are the keys to success later in life.
It is way more complicated than your presentation. Maybe look in WHY some people do not get through school. There are people of every skin colour and ethnicity that are in this situation. What is it about our system that allows this to happen?
Well, right off the bat I'd say one big problem with our system is that it is full of people like you who think it is the up to the system to do the job of parenting. Talk about guaranteed failure, unless you are measuring success in terms of your sinecure.
But this thread started as an exploration of how it is we Americans are funding a blatant, in your face, full-on, undeniable, flat-out genocide. Someone, I think it was you, said it was because we were exporting our treatment of blacks to brown foreigners, and you used the example of police killings of blacks to make your point. I happened to think this is a very important question: yes, how the fuck am I and my country dropping bombs on little kids in their homes, in their neighborhoods, in their cities on a daily basis. How is it my country is actually doing this? This is the epitome of evil and I want to know HOW IS THIS HAPPENING? Who is it making me complicit in genocide?
So I refuted your dopey oh-so-American response: it's, um, systemic racism and stuff, because I know that that is the answer of an ignorant midwit and will prevent us from actually finding an actual answer to this crucially important question: WHY IS MY COUNTRY DROPPING BOMBS ON LITTLE KIDS?
But typical of the ignorant midwits, so smug in their stupidity, so lacking in character and intellectual integrity, rather than acknowledge that, perhaps, you had been wrong to blame the genocide in Gaza on whiteness, you shifted the conversation to why our schools are such expensive failures.
I'm not going to let you do that. I want you to acknowledge that blaming the genocide in Gaza on white racism was wrong. Then I want you to try again:
HOW IS IT OUR COUNTRY IS MASS MURDERING INNOCENT LITTLE KIDS?
I don't know how old you are or if you remember the Vietnam war years? I do and the major factors that turned Americans against that war were twofold: First, the nightly news showing the horrors of that war, dead children, the blood and guts, up close and personal, in full color and delivering it to TV screens. Secondly, the endless footage of American soldiers being carried off the battlefields on stretchers and in body bags.
Where is the media in Gaza? Why are they not there on the front lines? I think we can all agree that there are people who do not want these images broadcast.
Your thoughts?
I would say the media is hiding the atrocities because, by-and-large, the media supports the genocide. It's for the same reason Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said explained the ignorance in the West of the atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks when they seized power in Russia in 1917--how they razed thousands of churches but left the synagogues intact and how they went on to genocide 66 million Russian Christians: it proved the world's media was in the hands of the perpetrators.
https://craignelsen.substack.com/p/hidden-bolshevik-past-hidden-bolshevik
Susan T, Please! This entire conversation is a simplification of a very complex issue. It is a myriad of factors "that allows this to happen". We are discussing one one of three factors.
All I am saying is that an UNEDUCATED and UNDISCIPLINED Child is a Child that is set up for almost inevitable failure. I am pointing out that the lack of basic education and discipline has a far greater influence on outcomes than is given credit.
If it were simply a fact of "cubic dollars spent", the USA would have some of the most educated and successful people on earth.
If it is "Poverty" alone, then how do so many once poor people excel?
If it was "Racism" alone, then how does one explain the POC's many success stories (particularly among Asian populations)?
These factors (racism and poverty) do come into play, but these are not the exclusive or even predominant causes. These two factors are also NOT exclusive to the USA.
Show me an educated, motivated and self disciplined individual and I can assure you that their rate of success will be greater that that of the un-discipline, un-motivated and un-educated individual, regardless of other factors.
"What is it about our system that allows this to happen?" I think you have asked a good question here, perhaps we should spend more time examining the root causes HONESTLY. So far, the public educational system administrations in the USA have failed to do this. Instead, they dance around the issues because they are afraid that they will step on toes, especially the toes of the politicians who keep the Taxpayer Dollars flowing into their coffers.
Then I guess the patriarchy does not really exist and women are not oppressed because some women "make it" even in terms of patriarchal thinking, so that must mean women are deficient. Or something. It certainly couldn't be anything to do with our living in a white male, preferably rich, dominated world. Could it???
Who said that women were "deficient". That is your claim, not mine. We have a distracted, dumbed down and fractured society that has failed to ask their elected leaders the HARD question of "Why are We supporting and paying for the bombing of innocent civilians anywhere in the world" and failed to hold them accountable for their barbaric actions.
Yes, blacks are such helpless children that their own behavior has no effect at all in our adult world. We superior whites are so far above blacks that our "attitudes" alone determine the life outcomes of that entire population
Well, please, Craig Nelson, consider me to be an inferior white. I would not ever want to be a twisted, screwed up human like you.
LOL, well I do consider you to be an inferior thinker. Also, my last name is spelled with two "e"s.
Jenny, the statistics are out there on the internet (if you are interested). You do have to make the effort to look them up though.
>>"I think this is more about poverty."
Jenny, this is why it would behoove you to learn about CRT - it is not just ONE factor. It is multiple factors and requires an understanding of 'INTERSECTIONALITY' too.
**Intersectionality: is a sociological analytical framework for understanding how groups' and individuals' social and political identities result in unique combinations of discrimination and privilege. Examples of these factors include gender, caste, sex, race, ethnicity, class, sexuality, religion, disability, height, age, and weight. The term intersectionality was coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw in 1989. She describes how interlocking systems of power affect those who are most marginalized in society. Activists and academics use the framework to promote social and political egalitarianism.
** CRT: CRT is also used in sociology to explain social, political, and legal structures and power distribution as through a "lens" focusing on the concept of race, and experiences of racism. For example, the CRT conceptual framework examines racial bias in laws and legal institutions, such as highly disparate rates of incarceration among racial groups in the United States.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate)
Whatever. In the US, during an arrest, an unarmed white guy is more likely to die at the hands of the police than an unarmed black guy.
Hmmm.
I know, right? Who is it feeding us such lies? And why?
Talk to your rubbish MSM about this!