Jenny, let me know when you figure out the difference between 'education' and 'critical thinking'. Lot's of people are educated, but few have critical thinking skills.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is the 'educated' that know how to successfully psychologically manipulate the 'uneducated' to do their bidding.
Education matters less than you think. MORALITY and CRITICAL THINKING (which is not taught even in most educational systems) is MORE impactful and necessary.
Chang, Jenny's heart is in the right place. I am sure she means what you are saying when she says that " 97% of Americans have no education". The kind of "education" she is referring to is the conditioning and brainwashing that goes on in educational institutions.
We gain critical thinking, moral behaviour and loving kindness in spite of the indoctrination.
Thanks to Caitlin & Tim we meet and share good values in these pages. Thank you too for being lucid and critical.
Indu, I think you misunderstood Jenny's comment. Jenny is saying that the educational quality is very low in the U.S. - she is NOT talking about the conditioning/brainwashing/indoctrination - in fact she is talking about the OPPOSITE - i.e. normal education like geography, history, etc.
Jenny STILL does not understand the difference between EDUCATION and CRITICAL THINKING.
BTW, if you follow many of Jenny's comments, the problem is NOT with Jenny's heart, but with her head (for whatever reason she seems to have comprehension issues - as observed by quite a few commentators).
>>"We gain critical thinking, moral behaviour and loving kindness in spite of the indoctrination."
I'd have to disagree with you on the critical thinking part. I would say that less than 5% of the human population seems to have adequate critical thinking skills (IMHO) (I used to be in the 95% section before I made a lot of effort - including reading books, watching videos, etc. to work on own thinking skills - which is a never-ending process till the end). Most people cannot be bothered to put in the time/work/effort as it requires an honest and objective evaluation of one's own belief systems and introspection.
Interesting Chang that you have to keep disqualifying me in decidedly inhumane terms.
As far as my first comment is concerned: I was EDUCATED well in each school I attended and was aware of any brainwashing particularly in England with regard to the Empire.
I do not think in the way you do is that bad?
I have lived a full life in many countries and listened and learned that education (with thought) is indispensable.
What use is 'critical thinking' if you don't know where Iran is on a map?
You are so pedantic sometimes that you assume we all need to be the same as you?
A NORMAL EDUCATION does not contain (and is not considered to impart) critical thinking skills. One has to specifically focus on a different set of skills to be able to think critically.
Until you understand that 'education' is NOT 'critical thinking' you will continue going down the wrong paths in your comprehension of arguments (as you have been doing here on Substack).
Nope - you gain critical thinking by explicitly working on 'critical thinking' skills.
"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness."
Noam Chomsky (from Propaganda, American-Style)... ""One reason that propaganda often works better on the educated than on the uneducated is that educated people read more, so they receive more propaganda. Another is that they have jobs in management, media, and academia and therefore work in some capacity as agents of the propaganda system—and they believe what the system expects them to believe. By and large, they’re part of the privileged elite, and share the interests and perceptions of those in power.""
When I was a kid nobody locked their doors or their cars. If you went hunting or fishing you left the keys in the truck in case someone had an emergency. Nobody touched what wasn't theirs. It was only when people started moving out from the city to our areas that things started to change. It seemed like city people lived by a different set of rules that lacked the morality of country folk. As for critical thinking, we got that from the WWII vets who had seen the horrors that government caused and spoke out against it. They never talked about the horrors they saw but they were determined to keep us from knowing what they had had to do. Curiously it was the government hand in hand with the movie moguls that brought it to the kids. Far too many of us were captured by the Hollywood bullshit that glamourized killing and promoted racism. Very few of us weren't suckered in by it. Those of us who weren't were the ones blessed with the gift of critical thinking.
Peter, critical thinking doesn't come automatically/naturally or otherwise because of life experiences, events, even formal or informal education, etc. One has to specifically study 'critical thinking' - which includes understanding how human minds work & think - the logical fallacies, biases, heuristics, human cognitive errors, and more that trip up EVERY HUMAN on the planet.
Jenny, let me know when you figure out the difference between 'education' and 'critical thinking'. Lot's of people are educated, but few have critical thinking skills.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is the 'educated' that know how to successfully psychologically manipulate the 'uneducated' to do their bidding.
Education matters less than you think. MORALITY and CRITICAL THINKING (which is not taught even in most educational systems) is MORE impactful and necessary.
Chang, Jenny's heart is in the right place. I am sure she means what you are saying when she says that " 97% of Americans have no education". The kind of "education" she is referring to is the conditioning and brainwashing that goes on in educational institutions.
We gain critical thinking, moral behaviour and loving kindness in spite of the indoctrination.
Thanks to Caitlin & Tim we meet and share good values in these pages. Thank you too for being lucid and critical.
Indu, I think you misunderstood Jenny's comment. Jenny is saying that the educational quality is very low in the U.S. - she is NOT talking about the conditioning/brainwashing/indoctrination - in fact she is talking about the OPPOSITE - i.e. normal education like geography, history, etc.
Jenny STILL does not understand the difference between EDUCATION and CRITICAL THINKING.
BTW, if you follow many of Jenny's comments, the problem is NOT with Jenny's heart, but with her head (for whatever reason she seems to have comprehension issues - as observed by quite a few commentators).
>>"We gain critical thinking, moral behaviour and loving kindness in spite of the indoctrination."
I'd have to disagree with you on the critical thinking part. I would say that less than 5% of the human population seems to have adequate critical thinking skills (IMHO) (I used to be in the 95% section before I made a lot of effort - including reading books, watching videos, etc. to work on own thinking skills - which is a never-ending process till the end). Most people cannot be bothered to put in the time/work/effort as it requires an honest and objective evaluation of one's own belief systems and introspection.
Interesting Chang that you have to keep disqualifying me in decidedly inhumane terms.
As far as my first comment is concerned: I was EDUCATED well in each school I attended and was aware of any brainwashing particularly in England with regard to the Empire.
I do not think in the way you do is that bad?
I have lived a full life in many countries and listened and learned that education (with thought) is indispensable.
What use is 'critical thinking' if you don't know where Iran is on a map?
You are so pedantic sometimes that you assume we all need to be the same as you?
I forgive you for being so unenlightened.
Jenny, please see my other comment here -> https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/comment/113926659
A NORMAL EDUCATION does not contain (and is not considered to impart) critical thinking skills. One has to specifically focus on a different set of skills to be able to think critically.
Until you understand that 'education' is NOT 'critical thinking' you will continue going down the wrong paths in your comprehension of arguments (as you have been doing here on Substack).
Indu, many people are unclear and don't understand what 'critical thinking' really is.
Here is my response to Jenny on what it is and how to build those skills further -> https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/comment/113926659
Thanks Indu.
"We gain critical thinking, moral behaviour and loving kindness in spite of the indoctrination."
I completely agree.
Nope - you gain critical thinking by explicitly working on 'critical thinking' skills.
"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness."
Here are some resources for you Jenny ->
(1) https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intersections/202409/critical-thinking-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters
(2) A course that you (and others) can take on critical thinking (free) -> https://www.coursera.org/articles/critical-thinking-skills
(3) FSU Lectures-Critical Thinking Course ->https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL447DFE6900523895
(4) Critical Thinking videos (by Center for Innovation in Legal Education) -> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpbtRdN7xWUcPT0qWBfC52FubQxcgdgjk
There are many more resources, but this should be a good start.
Noam Chomsky (from Propaganda, American-Style)... ""One reason that propaganda often works better on the educated than on the uneducated is that educated people read more, so they receive more propaganda. Another is that they have jobs in management, media, and academia and therefore work in some capacity as agents of the propaganda system—and they believe what the system expects them to believe. By and large, they’re part of the privileged elite, and share the interests and perceptions of those in power.""
When I was a kid nobody locked their doors or their cars. If you went hunting or fishing you left the keys in the truck in case someone had an emergency. Nobody touched what wasn't theirs. It was only when people started moving out from the city to our areas that things started to change. It seemed like city people lived by a different set of rules that lacked the morality of country folk. As for critical thinking, we got that from the WWII vets who had seen the horrors that government caused and spoke out against it. They never talked about the horrors they saw but they were determined to keep us from knowing what they had had to do. Curiously it was the government hand in hand with the movie moguls that brought it to the kids. Far too many of us were captured by the Hollywood bullshit that glamourized killing and promoted racism. Very few of us weren't suckered in by it. Those of us who weren't were the ones blessed with the gift of critical thinking.
Peter, critical thinking doesn't come automatically/naturally or otherwise because of life experiences, events, even formal or informal education, etc. One has to specifically study 'critical thinking' - which includes understanding how human minds work & think - the logical fallacies, biases, heuristics, human cognitive errors, and more that trip up EVERY HUMAN on the planet.
Here is my response (with some learning resources) to Jenny -> https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/comment/113926659
If you prefer reading books, here are some suggestions ->
(1) The Art of Thinking Clearly (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16248196-the-art-of-thinking-clearly)
(2) A Field Guide to Lies: Critical Thinking with Statistics and the Scientific Method (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54879347-a-field-guide-to-lies)
(3) Thinking, Fast and Slow (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow)