You are wasting your breath. If a person's eschatology is so shallow and transactional that they can't discern the obvious contradiction, they just don't want to. You can have a polite intellectual conversation around the associated merits of pre vs post or amillenailism. But you can't have a polite conversation with someone when the objective reality is as blatantly evil as the situation in Gaza. To argue in good faith we have to be able to at least agree on the initial starting point of the person we are arguing with, if its to be in good faith. Someone that is able to reject reality, insert or interpret truth in a way that fundamentally fails to respect the validity of all life, you have no framework to even begin the debate.
Throughout most of human history we have seen that often, mostly, resolution is not reached through reason or logical persuasion. That's why the world has been defined by war and atrocities of one people or group against another. For some reason, maybe because of the intentional illusion created to pacify the masses, we have forgotten that. Those in control have not. They use the many tools at thier disposal, to include laws and media, to shape the narrative, and crush dissent.
Violence may not be the course we would choose, but the leaders in power know that modern people are reluctant, afraid of the implications of direct action..so can be cowed into wringing their hands as their lords and masters do what they want. Attention will likely fade, people will revert to the partisan games with democracies illusion of choice.
Again, not saying force is the only answer, its just been the one most employed.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."
Some revolutions come at gunpoint, for sure; 'successful' is harder to measure. But regime change comes more often from peaceful protest.. Check the research by Chenoweth et. al. Peaceful protest is consistently more effective than violent.
The Trotsky line at Brest Litovsk, which you seem to be alluding to, is about power: Obviously closely related to revolution, which is often carried out by force, but Trotsky was speaking as the representative of a regime that had already consolidated control. He was talking about international relations, not internal revolution.
I'm in Scotland. Violent revolution well in our past. Plenty of us out on the streets in favour of Independence from England, but sadly we haven't made it to 3.5% yet. Pitchforks did fine at Bannockburn, but they weren't up to it at Culloden.
You are wasting your breath. If a person's eschatology is so shallow and transactional that they can't discern the obvious contradiction, they just don't want to. You can have a polite intellectual conversation around the associated merits of pre vs post or amillenailism. But you can't have a polite conversation with someone when the objective reality is as blatantly evil as the situation in Gaza. To argue in good faith we have to be able to at least agree on the initial starting point of the person we are arguing with, if its to be in good faith. Someone that is able to reject reality, insert or interpret truth in a way that fundamentally fails to respect the validity of all life, you have no framework to even begin the debate.
Throughout most of human history we have seen that often, mostly, resolution is not reached through reason or logical persuasion. That's why the world has been defined by war and atrocities of one people or group against another. For some reason, maybe because of the intentional illusion created to pacify the masses, we have forgotten that. Those in control have not. They use the many tools at thier disposal, to include laws and media, to shape the narrative, and crush dissent.
Violence may not be the course we would choose, but the leaders in power know that modern people are reluctant, afraid of the implications of direct action..so can be cowed into wringing their hands as their lords and masters do what they want. Attention will likely fade, people will revert to the partisan games with democracies illusion of choice.
Again, not saying force is the only answer, its just been the one most employed.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."
Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
Agree, Bodhi.
Successful revolutions come from the barrel of a gun (or a guillotine).
Some revolutions come at gunpoint, for sure; 'successful' is harder to measure. But regime change comes more often from peaceful protest.. Check the research by Chenoweth et. al. Peaceful protest is consistently more effective than violent.
The Trotsky line at Brest Litovsk, which you seem to be alluding to, is about power: Obviously closely related to revolution, which is often carried out by force, but Trotsky was speaking as the representative of a regime that had already consolidated control. He was talking about international relations, not internal revolution.
Hi Harry
American Revolution?
French?
Iranian?
How’d peaceful demonstrations work for Palestinians in the past?
Don’t know where you abide, Harry, but as an Amerikkkan I’m very well armed and ready to roll.
As a horse owner, I can loan you a pitchfork, though 🙂
Chenoweth's stuff is meticulously, exhaustively researched. Worth a look. This is her introducing it in a Guardian piece a few years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/01/worried-american-democracy-study-activist-techniques
I'm in Scotland. Violent revolution well in our past. Plenty of us out on the streets in favour of Independence from England, but sadly we haven't made it to 3.5% yet. Pitchforks did fine at Bannockburn, but they weren't up to it at Culloden.
Harry, very “Smart” to demonstrate for independence from England! 😉
Everyone I know who’s visited Bonnie Scotland loves your country and your people (whiskey as well!)
Excellent. But I'm afraid you are now in serious trouble.
Whiskey with an e is Irish (and I have heard some other former colonies ...)
Whisky, Scottish (never, never, never 'Scotch') is always e-less.
There are bars where suggesting otherwise .. even your pitchfork won't keep you safe.