The fading old empire, desperate to regain its glory days of worldwide invasion and pillage; the expanding triumphant new empire, eager to take on that mantle - neither of them really thought Israel through strategically.
You said it - the Empire conveniently defined indigenous peoples as local wildlife. In Australia they even gave it a legal term - "terra nullius". As in, "People? What people? We don't see no humans here."
I remember in school, when they'd teach us about "explorers" "discovering" parts of Australia, I'd ask them, "But weren't there already people living there? Why didn't they just ask them?" The teacher would give me the strangest look.
No, look at your history. There were Arabs and Jews. Arab leaders met with Hitler long before the State of Israel. The reason? To get rid of Jews. No doubt this is why a two state solution was turned down by the Arabs.
"a two state solution was turned down by the Arabs."...??? There was, after Israel kicked, burned, murdered Palestinians out of their villages and cities, a 2 state solution. The West Bank and Gaza. It didn't work out too well, did it? Not because of the Palestinians, either.
Beyond my current education........I did hear a lovely old Jew whose family had lived peacefully along side Muslims in Iraq and had to leave after Israelis made trouble there to force jews to Israel. It was not a good move. In Israel he had to learn rid himself of his Arabic culture. His background was looked down upon....the European jews were the "superior germanic" Jews. He's on Youtube.
Avi Schlaim per chance? I love him - his quiet, calm voice, his intelligence, his FACTS, and, of course, his wild curly hair that reminds me of a child’s stuffed lamb. He is a wonderful man, greatest respect.
Hmm, in my reading of history there were Jews living in Palestine who were also Arabs at the same time. Then a bunch of other Jews of a variety of other ethnicities were herded into Palestine under duress.
Were these newcomers allowed to speak the languages they had spoken since birth, or publish books and newspapers in those languages? No, they had to speak Hebrew!
No strategy? The British navy had just switched from coal to oil. Before WW1, Germany was weeks away from finishing the Berlin to Baghdad Railway where the Germans would provide engineering to develop the oil fields and split the profits with the owners of the land.
This is all true - the first place British troops landed on foreign soil at the onset of WW1 was Basra.
After the war, though, there were elements within the Anglo-American power structure that felt Zionism was too heavy-handed and anachronistic. They advocated for simply fostering a comprador elite, as was being done in the other newly created Arab states. The pro-Zionists, however, claimed that these other states would need a constant threat of direct violence hanging over their heads to keep them in line.
I don't think they were correct. Israel has been too disruptive, too costly, hampering the Empire's stable control of oil extraction. That's why I opined that the decision to go with Zionism was made for emotional reasons rather than pragmatic long-term strategic ones.
Don’t forget that many of the borders of Arabic lands were rewritten by the British Empire and their French allies after WW1 when the black stuff that fuelled the new motor car was discovered in Arabia. The Saud family were the hardest gangsters in the land so naturally the Uk made them monarchs.
True. The Sykes Picot Agreement. As I relearn history I find secret agreements written up, before the first shot is fired, on how it will be divided later. France, Britain, etc all get their pieces so they don't lose time in-fighting. They could not allow Germany to benefit from this, and especially not the Arabs. The post Ukraine and Gaza/Palestine agreements are interesting too. See Lawrence of Arabia's biography detailing the fact he knew they intended to do this all along.
Too bad learning from history has not been invented yet.
The fading old empire, desperate to regain its glory days of worldwide invasion and pillage; the expanding triumphant new empire, eager to take on that mantle - neither of them really thought Israel through strategically.
There were just those A-rabs there. They didn't get a vote.
You said it - the Empire conveniently defined indigenous peoples as local wildlife. In Australia they even gave it a legal term - "terra nullius". As in, "People? What people? We don't see no humans here."
Terra Nullius was used as a legal reason to take over Canada as well. See the book by the same name. Shocking history.
I remember in school, when they'd teach us about "explorers" "discovering" parts of Australia, I'd ask them, "But weren't there already people living there? Why didn't they just ask them?" The teacher would give me the strangest look.
Rhymes with " A land with no people for a people with no land" as the Brits munch on Jaffa Cakes.
Who grew the oranges? That does not matter to infantilized adults who are comfortable in the heart of the empire.
Archival footage here showing the cities, ports, etc of Palestine.
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/featured-documentaries/2013/5/29/al-nakba/
No, look at your history. There were Arabs and Jews. Arab leaders met with Hitler long before the State of Israel. The reason? To get rid of Jews. No doubt this is why a two state solution was turned down by the Arabs.
The Zionists met with Hitler, not the Arabs. That’s some revisionist Zionist history, that you’re throwing out. lol!
"a two state solution was turned down by the Arabs."...??? There was, after Israel kicked, burned, murdered Palestinians out of their villages and cities, a 2 state solution. The West Bank and Gaza. It didn't work out too well, did it? Not because of the Palestinians, either.
Beyond my current education........I did hear a lovely old Jew whose family had lived peacefully along side Muslims in Iraq and had to leave after Israelis made trouble there to force jews to Israel. It was not a good move. In Israel he had to learn rid himself of his Arabic culture. His background was looked down upon....the European jews were the "superior germanic" Jews. He's on Youtube.
Correct! Clare Phillips isn’t telling the truth. What else would you expect.
Avi Schlaim per chance? I love him - his quiet, calm voice, his intelligence, his FACTS, and, of course, his wild curly hair that reminds me of a child’s stuffed lamb. He is a wonderful man, greatest respect.
Spot on. This is the truth.
Look at the history Germany 1933 and the boycott that starved many. Transfer Plan.
Hmm, in my reading of history there were Jews living in Palestine who were also Arabs at the same time. Then a bunch of other Jews of a variety of other ethnicities were herded into Palestine under duress.
Were these newcomers allowed to speak the languages they had spoken since birth, or publish books and newspapers in those languages? No, they had to speak Hebrew!
Like this history?
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn517746
No strategy? The British navy had just switched from coal to oil. Before WW1, Germany was weeks away from finishing the Berlin to Baghdad Railway where the Germans would provide engineering to develop the oil fields and split the profits with the owners of the land.
There is more……….
This is all true - the first place British troops landed on foreign soil at the onset of WW1 was Basra.
After the war, though, there were elements within the Anglo-American power structure that felt Zionism was too heavy-handed and anachronistic. They advocated for simply fostering a comprador elite, as was being done in the other newly created Arab states. The pro-Zionists, however, claimed that these other states would need a constant threat of direct violence hanging over their heads to keep them in line.
I don't think they were correct. Israel has been too disruptive, too costly, hampering the Empire's stable control of oil extraction. That's why I opined that the decision to go with Zionism was made for emotional reasons rather than pragmatic long-term strategic ones.
Don’t forget that many of the borders of Arabic lands were rewritten by the British Empire and their French allies after WW1 when the black stuff that fuelled the new motor car was discovered in Arabia. The Saud family were the hardest gangsters in the land so naturally the Uk made them monarchs.
True. The Sykes Picot Agreement. As I relearn history I find secret agreements written up, before the first shot is fired, on how it will be divided later. France, Britain, etc all get their pieces so they don't lose time in-fighting. They could not allow Germany to benefit from this, and especially not the Arabs. The post Ukraine and Gaza/Palestine agreements are interesting too. See Lawrence of Arabia's biography detailing the fact he knew they intended to do this all along.
Too bad learning from history has not been invented yet.